HondaJet: Not A Steam Gage In Sight

Al G writes:

And you know this how?

By looking at design features and failure modes, and accidents. For
example, the original de Havilland Comet was unsafe.

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Larry Dighera wrote:
http://world.honda.com/HondaJet/Styling/FlightDeck/
· All information, from flight and engine instrumentation to
navigation, communication, terrain and traffic data, is uniquely
integrated and digitally presented on the dual, large-format, high-
resolution primary flight displays and the multifunction display


· The HondaJet cockpit configuration provides a high degree of
integration for enhanced situational awareness, functionality, ease of
operation, redundancy, and flight safety.

Diamond aircraft are also all-electric, as well as nearly all jets and
turboprops.

Look, the only thing the vacuum pump runs in most planes that have one
is the attitude indicator and sometimes the DG, and it is far more
failure-prone than the electrical system. Not everybody designs planes
as if they were Cessna Skyhawks or Piper Tripacers. Those planes have
vacuum systems because they are cheap, not because they give you added
redundancy. Some manufacturers have had the gall to tell you that
putting unreliable systems on an airplane increases safety, but it
obviously does not. An enormous amount of instrument training is
devoted to failures of the vacuum system and people die anyway.
Technology has advanced somewhat since the 1950s. Given the enormous
number of lawsuits against manufacturers of vacuum pumps it is only a
matter of time before they disappear entirely. The true function of a
vaccum pump is to fail at the worst possible moment.

You talk about the failure of the power system on a Cessna 172S on a
long over-water ferry flight as if the plane was designed for that type
of flying. Ferry pilots ought to know that theirs is a high-risk
business. The battery backup on a 172S is perfectly adequate to get you
down safely in 99.9% of flights. If you choose to fly ANY plane where a
failure can put in a situation where you cannot recover, that is your
choice, but it is not the fault of the airplane or its designers. If
you choose to fly single-engine or single pilot IFR at night over the
mountains or long distances over water, that is your choice. But don't
complain that someone did not give you an 'out' when trouble happens.

On 22 Oct 2006 17:37:29 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
. com:

You talk about the failure of the power system on a Cessna 172S on a
long over-water ferry flight as if the plane was designed for that type
of flying. Ferry pilots ought to know that theirs is a high-risk
business. The battery backup on a 172S is perfectly adequate to get you
down safely in 99.9% of flights. If you choose to fly ANY plane where a
failure can put in a situation where you cannot recover, that is your
choice, but it is not the fault of the airplane or its designers. If
you choose to fly single-engine or single pilot IFR at night over the
mountains or long distances over water, that is your choice. But don't
complain that someone did not give you an 'out' when trouble happens.

Pilots should be made aware of the potential magnitude of the failure
mode when the glass cockpit goes into infinite re-boot mode. All
communications, navigation, autopilot, etc are lost. I doubt many who
fly behind such equipment are aware of that.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On 22 Oct 2006 17:37:29 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
. com:

You talk about the failure of the power system on a Cessna 172S on a
long over-water ferry flight as if the plane was designed for that type
of flying. Ferry pilots ought to know that theirs is a high-risk
business. The battery backup on a 172S is perfectly adequate to get you
down safely in 99.9% of flights. If you choose to fly ANY plane where a
failure can put in a situation where you cannot recover, that is your
choice, but it is not the fault of the airplane or its designers. If
you choose to fly single-engine or single pilot IFR at night over the
mountains or long distances over water, that is your choice. But don't
complain that someone did not give you an 'out' when trouble happens.

Pilots should be made aware of the potential magnitude of the failure
mode when the glass cockpit goes into infinite re-boot mode. All
communications, navigation, autopilot, etc are lost. I doubt many who
fly behind such equipment are aware of that.

It is in the emergency procedures. Pilots should be aware of those.

On 24 Oct 2006 18:08:11 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
om:


Larry Dighera wrote:
On 22 Oct 2006 17:37:29 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
. com:

Pilots should be made aware of the potential magnitude of the failure
mode when the glass cockpit goes into infinite re-boot mode. All
communications, navigation, autopilot, etc are lost. I doubt many who
fly behind such equipment are aware of that.

It is in the emergency procedures. Pilots should be aware of those.

Are you able to provide the specific wording from the C-172S POH that
mentions that only ASI, AI, VSI, Alt. and magnetic compass steam gages
will be available in the event of glass cockpit failure, and also
mentions that the autopilot, radio communications, fuel gages, and
navigation systems will become inoperative?

http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp
G1000: Cessna Nav III:

a.. Cockpit Reference Guide, Rev. A, Oct, 2005 |
Download (3.53 MB)
b.. Cockpit Reference Guide (Cessna Nav III), Rev. B, Jul,
2005 | Download (4.43 MB)
c.. Cockpit Reference Guide Addendum (Cessna Nav III),
Rev. A, Jul, 2005 | Download (24 KB)
d.. Pilot's Guide, Rev. A, Nov, 2005 | Download (8.67
MB)
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
| On 24 Oct 2006 18:08:11 -0700, "cjcampbell"
| wrote in
| om:
|
|
| Larry Dighera wrote:
| On 22 Oct 2006 17:37:29 -0700, "cjcampbell"
| wrote in
| . com:
|
| Pilots should be made aware of the potential magnitude
of the failure
| mode when the glass cockpit goes into infinite re-boot
mode. All
| communications, navigation, autopilot, etc are lost. I
doubt many who
| fly behind such equipment are aware of that.
|
| It is in the emergency procedures. Pilots should be aware
of those.
|
| Are you able to provide the specific wording from the
C-172S POH that
| mentions that only ASI, AI, VSI, Alt. and magnetic compass
steam gages
| will be available in the event of glass cockpit failure,
and also
| mentions that the autopilot, radio communications, fuel
gages, and
| navigation systems will become inoperative?

Larry Dighera schrieb:

Are you able to provide the specific wording from the C-172S POH that
mentions that only ASI, AI, VSI, Alt. and magnetic compass steam gages
will be available in the event of glass cockpit failure, and also
mentions that the autopilot, radio communications, fuel gages, and
navigation systems will become inoperative?

I don't need a scientific degree in logic to understand even without
reading the POH that when the screen goes black, all those nifty things
which were on that very screen before are, well, not available anymore.

Besides, pilots flew with "only ASI, AI, VSI, Alt. and magnetic compass
steam gages" for decades, so what's the big deal. I agree that a backup
radio would be nice, though. (Which would perfectly double as a
navigation aid using VDF.)

Stefan

Larry Dighera wrote:
On 24 Oct 2006 18:08:11 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
om:


Larry Dighera wrote:
On 22 Oct 2006 17:37:29 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in
. com:

Pilots should be made aware of the potential magnitude of the failure
mode when the glass cockpit goes into infinite re-boot mode. All
communications, navigation, autopilot, etc are lost. I doubt many who
fly behind such equipment are aware of that.

It is in the emergency procedures. Pilots should be aware of those.

Are you able to provide the specific wording from the C-172S POH that
mentions that only ASI, AI, VSI, Alt. and magnetic compass steam gages
will be available in the event of glass cockpit failure, and also
mentions that the autopilot, radio communications, fuel gages, and
navigation systems will become inoperative?

Not at this time, being in the Philippines and not having any manuals
with me at all. However, it is in the G1000 manual, which is part of
the airplane's operator's manuals.

cjcampbell writes:

It is in the emergency procedures.

Is it? If there is a procedure for it, why is it still happening in
the first place?

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Mxsmanic wrote:
cjcampbell writes:

It is in the emergency procedures.

Is it? If there is a procedure for it, why is it still happening in
the first place?


People who fly real airplanes know that anything can break. It is part
of the training. A good pilot constantly asks himself, "If this thing
that I am using quits working, what will I do?" A good pilot also knows
at any moment where he would land in an emergency. It is a favorite
question instructors like to ask their students; or we just yank the
throttle and ask the student, "So, where you gonna land?"


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