Martinsville Approach

Or perhaps no failure was involved. The reported ceiling was 100 below MDA
and rising according to the sequence reports. Two pilots searching for
visual contact with an airport they had gone into many times....

What I'm reminded of once again is if you fly the procedure to standard with
discipline and not too much judgement, it all works.

We'll just have to wait to hopefully find out. But that may never happen.

"OtisWinslow"
Flying the approach seems so basic .. especially with 2 pilots .. that it
sure makes you wonder about a failure of some sort that distracted the
crew.

Actually the WX was
WEATHER: KMTV 241620Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM OVC006 14/13 A2998 RMK A01

LOC30 minimums with DME are 400-1, however approximately 20 aircraft,
probably most with two man professional crews, had missed the approach and
diverted so the weather might not have been as good on approach as it was at
the airport.



Ernie
BE36 (E-160)
KDVO





"Maule Driver" wrote in message
news
Or perhaps no failure was involved. The reported ceiling was 100 below
MDA
and rising according to the sequence reports. Two pilots searching for
visual contact with an airport they had gone into many times....

What I'm reminded of once again is if you fly the procedure to standard
with
discipline and not too much judgement, it all works.

We'll just have to wait to hopefully find out. But that may never happen.

"OtisWinslow"
Flying the approach seems so basic .. especially with 2 pilots .. that it
sure makes you wonder about a failure of some sort that distracted the
crew.

In article , OtisWinslow
wrote:

Flying the approach seems so basic .. especially with 2 pilots .. that it
sure makes you wonder about a failure of some sort that distracted the
crew.

That's what I'm wondering, too. I flew many an hour with Dick when he
worked for my airline, and I can't see him simply not following the
MAP; it just doesn't make sense. (Of course, isn't that usually the
way with accidents?) I'm sure something else was diverting their
attention, but who knows...

He'll be missed; he was a lot of fun to fly with.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Manchester, CT =USA=

Garner Miller wrote:

In article , OtisWinslow
wrote:

Flying the approach seems so basic .. especially with 2 pilots .. that it
sure makes you wonder about a failure of some sort that distracted the
crew.

That's what I'm wondering, too. I flew many an hour with Dick when he
worked for my airline, and I can't see him simply not following the
MAP; it just doesn't make sense. (Of course, isn't that usually the
way with accidents?) I'm sure something else was diverting their
attention, but who knows...

He'll be missed; he was a lot of fun to fly with.

We need to learn what intervention, if any, on the part of ATC. Perhaps a
vector?

I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle

G Farris wrote:

I know it's not considered good form to discuss or speculate on accidents
before the factual reports are released - however I'll bet I'm not the only
one who pulls up an approach plate when hearing about an accident on an IFR
approach. In my opinion, as long as the interest remains technical, and the
discussion respectful, we should not be held to any specious rule of silence
about accidents. Afer all, they are one of our best sources of learning, and
the primary source for rule-making - so it should be both natural and wise to
take an interest.

Looking at the RNAV approach plate for Martinsville, I notice that the missed
approach altitude is lower than the obstacle clearance altitude required to
make another approach. This means, after a missed, you would have to climb out
of the holding altitude to reach a safe altitude to make a second try on the
same approach. I thought that was contrary to TERPS procedures.

G Faris




--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin

I have flown into MTV visual approach.
My first encounter with hills.
I fooled me sinec I have only flown in Florida and Georgia.

Michelle P wrote:

I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle

If you get a pucker factor with hills 8 miles away from the airport, you better not
come out west. ;-)

"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...
I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle

If that approach gives a pucker factor then I suggest you get some more
training.


G Farris wrote:

I know it's not considered good form to discuss or speculate on accidents
before the factual reports are released - however I'll bet I'm not the
only one who pulls up an approach plate when hearing about an accident on
an IFR approach. In my opinion, as long as the interest remains technical,
and the discussion respectful, we should not be held to any specious rule
of silence about accidents. Afer all, they are one of our best sources of
learning, and the primary source for rule-making - so it should be both
natural and wise to take an interest.
Looking at the RNAV approach plate for Martinsville, I notice that the
missed approach altitude is lower than the obstacle clearance altitude
required to make another approach. This means, after a missed, you would
have to climb out of the holding altitude to reach a safe altitude to make
a second try on the same approach. I thought that was contrary to TERPS
procedures.
G Faris



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

Richard Hertz wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
hlink.net...


I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle



If that approach gives a pucker factor then I suggest you get some more
training.


Me thinks you were not there that night, so keep your degrading opinions
to your self.
Michelle
--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

"Michelle P" wrote in message
ink.net...


Richard Hertz wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
thlink.net...

I have flown this approach into Martinsville, VA at night in low (under
1000 ft). in a twin. You are flying at the mountains into a "box" canyon
type area. If you do the missed in-correctly you will hit the mountains.
The pucker factor was high.
Michelle


If that approach gives a pucker factor then I suggest you get some more
training.

Me thinks you were not there that night, so keep your degrading opinions
to your self.
Michelle

And methinks that if you have trouble with that approach then there is a
problem. Why is there a problem with that approach? It is not difficult.
Are you saying it is? I did not intend to be degrading, just that it is a
simple approach and if it gives someone reason to pucker then perhaps they
need more training to get confidence.

If perhaps you meant the puckering to be from other circumstances then I
cannot be held responsible as that was not stated in the original post. The
pucker statement immediately followed the part about flying the missed
incorectly. I can't see how it is difficult to follow the instructions on
that chart. That is all. if you choose to be offended that is not my
problem.


--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity