Chad Irby is a Liar

The 2000 Census criteria changed, I didn't misinterpret it at all.

You need to learn to read. Look up the definition of "majority"--your
numbers do not add up to 51% or more of the US population. And again, before
you go spouting off this crap, read how the census determined that
figure--read especially about first, second, and total ancestry, then come
back and tell me, one of the folks who listed German as ONE of my ancestry
lines, just how that makes me "German American". Your lunacy is growing...

Brooks according to the 2004 World Almanac the US population in
281,421,906 of which 211,460,626 are Caucasian. To simplify the math
let's just reduce the numbers to 281 mil and 211 mil respectively.
Whites make up the majority with around 75% of the total population.
Out of this 211 mil German-Americans number approx. 65 million, or 31%
of that total. That 31% in the white sub-category is greater than the
next two big ethnic sub-majorities of Irish and British Americans
making German-Americans the largest single ethnic majority under the
caucasian category. Minorities continue to have the option of being
counted as sub-categories but the Caucasian sub-categories are too
large to list anymore so they are all lumped together with the
pathetic "other" option box. I always list myself as German-American
because my parents were both German as were their parents stretching
back to the Fatherland. I am German by blood and that to me is more
important than national boundries. I could care less what ethnic
background you are but I am not mixed hence I have no problem listing
my background. Many other German-Americans feel the same and in the
1990 Census their number was #1 in the Caucasian sub-category group.
There is no lunacy about the numbers- there are 65 million people in
the US that claim German ethnic background. This puts them ahead of
any minority group and first among the white sub-groups. Fact.


Last year you were promising us a "new" German battle
tank--where is this curious weapon (in reality the Bundeswehr is trying
to
preserve what strength it has remaining, is interested (like the rest of
the
western world) in finding lighter vehicles to replace its older heavier
armor systems, and finally lacks the R&D budget to even attempt, had
they
wanted to, the development of a new MBT)?

To what specific post are you referring to? The Heer has already
tested a Leopard II with 140mm main gun. DB was experimenting with a
50 ton wheeled tank which can be seen in the Concord Book "German
Wheeled Fighting Vehicles" Series #7504 pg 48. That vehicle has been
tested since 1995. On the "Flecktarn" online site you can see the RjPz
Panther crane tank which is also testing. Then there is the fully
tracked EGS tank trials vehicle by KMW seen in "New Vanguard 24:
Leopard 2 Main Battle Tank 1979-1998" pg 47. Finally there is the EGS
architecture applied to the Leopard III design in RAIDS SPECIAL No.5
"Les Chars en Action" pgs 81-82. You may also remember that the new
IFV that was named Igel (Hedgehog) has now been redesignated Puma and
is on track. That doesn't in any way interfere with the KMW submission
for the Euro-wheeled family of AFVs- the MRAV. And then there is the
ultra-futuristic Kpz Lowe in the design stage.
So what are YOU talking about?

Where is the *new* tank you said the Wehrmacht was buying? H'mmm? Choose
one.

Brooks, provide the thread. I think you are distorting what I said for
your own purpose of discrediting me. You are like the people who
actually believe the German press releases of the "poor state of the
German Army". The facts are that more systems, R&D, and troop
deployments are in progress now than ever before. Germany does have
struggles and hard choices to make prior to full EU integration... but
that doesn't affect major AFV changes. When the Marder replacement was
first cancelled people said the Germans scrapped a successor. A few
weeks later the Igel was proposed and it continues even though a new
name has been given it- Puma. I saw the first mock-up of the interior
of the Igel and it was awesome. Three crew plus 12 soldiers,
wedge-shaped, 35mm gun, three large electronic displays, counter helo
and aircraft missile defenses, anti-mine detection devices, and
6th-generation modular armor protection plus internal protection
structures. A very nice IFV indeed. Regarding the tank, R&D continues
including EM armor. The Germans already have the world's best tank in
the Leopard IIA-6 but the EU as a whole wants to move forward
ultimately with faster, lighter, wheeled tanks and autonomous combat
robats that would scout for and accompany them.

You have often pointed to some
allegedly secret, yet flying and maybe even operational, German stealth
aircraft--where is that one? Have you bothered to READ about how cash
strapped the German military procurement and development budgets
actually
are? You live in some kind of strange dreamland, Robert--come join us
back
in the real world.

Well, that's why since reunification the Germans have replaced nearly
all of their small arms, improved the Leopard II to world's finest MBT
in the A5/6 models, introduced the PzH 2000 SPG- also the world's
finest, the Fenneck, the Dingo, introduced IDZ supersoldier gear into
the Balkans in 2002, created KSK special forces (rated up there with
SAS- from scratch), are getting the Eurotiger and EC-635 helos,
produced bio-engineered anthrax under the Heer's research program and
sold some to the US in 2000/1, and contributed 13,000 troops to
operations outside Germany. They will introduce the Taifun UCAV next
year too. Meanwhile EADS is trying to get their Eurofighters, produce
the Mako for light strike and export sales, participate in the A400M
program, work on the stealth cruise misile and anti-stealth hardware
and convert Airbus 310s into tankers and cargo carriers. Other missile
programs are IRIS-T and Taurus S/O weapon. The German Navy is trying
to get new stealth frigates, AIP SSK submarines, develop UUCVs, etc...
Seems like a lot of projects for a nation with only 40 billion a year
on defense compared to 400 billion by the US. I think they will
accomplish more with less money until the EU unifies and the defense
pot is merged.

As for the Firefly II stealth aircraft, two were seen over the
Overberg test range in the RSA years ago. The RSA allows Germany to
test secret weapons there like they did off their coast with the
German subs provided to Israel. Germany modified their launch tubes to
fire the Popeye Turbo cruise missile and they tested it at sea off the
RSA. German technicians were onboard. So I am not living in a fantasy
world. You OTOH are in denial.

So you have no actual evidence. That figures.

The Overberg test range tests various RSA weapons too. Try yourself to
get some shots of what they're testing there. You couldn't get
evidence either anymore than you taking a trip up to Area 51 with a
camera. The Aussies have been claiming for years of scalar weapons
testing in the outback and requested local assistance in determing the
weapons there. Guess what. The agencies were stopped by the military
and turned back. So does that mean the Aussies live in fantasy land?

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
The 2000 Census criteria changed, I didn't misinterpret it at all.

You need to learn to read. Look up the definition of "majority"--your
numbers do not add up to 51% or more of the US population. And again,
before
you go spouting off this crap, read how the census determined that
figure--read especially about first, second, and total ancestry, then
come
back and tell me, one of the folks who listed German as ONE of my
ancestry
lines, just how that makes me "German American". Your lunacy is
growing...

Brooks according to the 2004 World Almanac the US population in
281,421,906 of which 211,460,626 are Caucasian. To simplify the math
let's just reduce the numbers to 281 mil and 211 mil respectively.
Whites make up the majority with around 75% of the total population.

When you are trying to make a statement about the ethnic backgrounds of
*Americans* you can't just discard those ethnicities you find to be
problematic to your ridiculous thesis that "the majority" of Americans are
of German extraction.

Out of this 211 mil German-Americans number approx. 65 million, or 31%
of that total.

Incorrect. That 65 million includes folks like me who listed German ancestry
IN ADDITION to other ancestral contributors--they are not by definition
"German Americans" (whatever the hell that is).

That 31% in the white sub-category is greater than the
next two big ethnic sub-majorities of Irish and British Americans
making German-Americans the largest single ethnic majority under the
caucasian category.

Wrong again. My ancestry is by far mostly English, with a very small German
contribution--but by your definition, I am a "German American"? LOL! Wrong
again, Arndt.

Minorities continue to have the option of being
counted as sub-categories but the Caucasian sub-categories are too
large to list anymore so they are all lumped together with the
pathetic "other" option box. I always list myself as German-American
because my parents were both German as were their parents stretching
back to the Fatherland. I am German by blood and that to me is more
important than national boundries.

I an detect the background music..."Deutschland Uber Alles". Everytime you
start ranting about "German blood" and "the Fatherland" I get a quesy
feeling. Is it hard to type these posts with your right arm raised?

I could care less what ethnic
background you are but I am not mixed

Perish the thought! All of those "nasty" impurities you could have been
subjected to!

hence I have no problem listing
my background. Many other German-Americans feel the same and in the
1990 Census their number was #1 in the Caucasian sub-category group.
There is no lunacy about the numbers- there are 65 million people in
the US that claim German ethnic background. This puts them ahead of
any minority group and first among the white sub-groups. Fact.

You are again twisting the figures--the fact that 65 million listed German
ancestry as ONE of their roots (a) does not in itself constitute a "majority
of Americans", as you earlier claimed, and (b) does not define even those 65
million as "German Americans".



Last year you were promising us a "new" German battle
tank--where is this curious weapon (in reality the Bundeswehr is
trying
to
preserve what strength it has remaining, is interested (like the
rest of
the
western world) in finding lighter vehicles to replace its older
heavier
armor systems, and finally lacks the R&D budget to even attempt, had
they
wanted to, the development of a new MBT)?

To what specific post are you referring to? The Heer has already
tested a Leopard II with 140mm main gun. DB was experimenting with a
50 ton wheeled tank which can be seen in the Concord Book "German
Wheeled Fighting Vehicles" Series #7504 pg 48. That vehicle has been
tested since 1995. On the "Flecktarn" online site you can see the RjPz
Panther crane tank which is also testing. Then there is the fully
tracked EGS tank trials vehicle by KMW seen in "New Vanguard 24:
Leopard 2 Main Battle Tank 1979-1998" pg 47. Finally there is the EGS
architecture applied to the Leopard III design in RAIDS SPECIAL No.5
"Les Chars en Action" pgs 81-82. You may also remember that the new
IFV that was named Igel (Hedgehog) has now been redesignated Puma and
is on track. That doesn't in any way interfere with the KMW submission
for the Euro-wheeled family of AFVs- the MRAV. And then there is the
ultra-futuristic Kpz Lowe in the design stage.
So what are YOU talking about?

Where is the *new* tank you said the Wehrmacht was buying? H'mmm? Choose
one.

Brooks, provide the thread. I think you are distorting what I said for
your own purpose of discrediting me.


Me: " There is significant doubt that *any* follow on MBT program in Germany
ever comes about; you might want to examine what is happening right now with
their Panther IFV program, and the recent statements regarding their desire
to move to a lighter/more deployable "light armor" concept, similar to US "

You: "Maybe you should do some research yourself since Germany already has
several prototype tanks testing- the tracked KMW vehicle, the wheeled
DB vehicle, the NGP technology demonstrator, and RakJpz Panther
cranetank {note--this program was recommended for termination by the German
Army in July 2002--KB]. In recent years the Germans have introduced upgraded
Wiesels, the Fenneck, the Dingo, PzH2000, and the prototype European
IFV. The German Army also plans to introduce autonomous combat robots
with its future AFVs and is set to field the world's first
Supersoldiers- IDZ "Jagers" (Hunters) in 2004." (August 9 2002 in this NG)

Where are these new MBT programs you were disagreeing with me about? Hell,
where are the "supersoldiers" you were bragging about? You keep trotting out
these pie-in-the-sky german vaporware developments...but other than upgraded
Weasels, Dingo light armored vehicles, and the PZH2000, we have seen little
further development and no procurement of new AFV's in the Bundeswehr.



You are like the people who
actually believe the German press releases of the "poor state of the
German Army". The facts are that more systems, R&D, and troop
deployments are in progress now than ever before.

"The German Army will take the biggest cut in personnel. It already is
slimming down from a structure of 230,000 personnel to 132,000, but these
numbers will go down further by 2010, depending on how the new reduction of
30,000 soldiers will be distributed across all the services, Col. Carsten
John Jacobson, the German military defense attaché, told National Defense.
The heavy forces will be reduced by 45 percent. The number of Leopard main
battle tanks will go down from the current 2,500 to 852."
(http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o...le.cfm?Id=1294 )

"The German defense budget, he said, currently is characterized by high
operating expenditures and personnel costs, insufficient investment rate,
considerable over-planning and resources committed to contracts." (same
source, quoting a German Embassy official in Washington, DC).

It seems thing are not as rosy as you portray.

Germany does have
struggles and hard choices to make prior to full EU integration... but
that doesn't affect major AFV changes. When the Marder replacement was
first cancelled people said the Germans scrapped a successor. A few
weeks later the Igel was proposed and it continues even though a new
name has been given it- Puma. I saw the first mock-up of the interior
of the Igel and it was awesome. Three crew plus 12 soldiers,
wedge-shaped, 35mm gun, three large electronic displays, counter helo
and aircraft missile defenses, anti-mine detection devices, and
6th-generation modular armor protection plus internal protection
structures. A very nice IFV indeed.

Wow! And with a paltry 1 billion EURO R&D budget for the Budeswehr, what
decade do you see these new "wonderweapons" becoming available?

Regarding the tank, R&D continues
including EM armor. The Germans already have the world's best tank in
the Leopard IIA-6 but the EU as a whole wants to move forward
ultimately with faster, lighter, wheeled tanks and autonomous combat
robats that would scout for and accompany them.

All with an R&D budget of less than $1.3 billion, huh? And the "world's best
tank"..that has never seen combat. Yeah, right.


You have often pointed to some
allegedly secret, yet flying and maybe even operational, German
stealth
aircraft--where is that one? Have you bothered to READ about how
cash
strapped the German military procurement and development budgets
actually
are? You live in some kind of strange dreamland, Robert--come join
us
back
in the real world.

Well, that's why since reunification the Germans have replaced nearly
all of their small arms, improved the Leopard II to world's finest MBT
in the A5/6 models, introduced the PzH 2000 SPG- also the world's
finest, the Fenneck, the Dingo, introduced IDZ supersoldier gear into
the Balkans in 2002, created KSK special forces (rated up there with
SAS- from scratch), are getting the Eurotiger and EC-635 helos,
produced bio-engineered anthrax under the Heer's research program and
sold some to the US in 2000/1, and contributed 13,000 troops to
operations outside Germany. They will introduce the Taifun UCAV next
year too. Meanwhile EADS is trying to get their Eurofighters, produce
the Mako for light strike and export sales, participate in the A400M
program, work on the stealth cruise misile and anti-stealth hardware
and convert Airbus 310s into tankers and cargo carriers. Other missile
programs are IRIS-T and Taurus S/O weapon. The German Navy is trying
to get new stealth frigates, AIP SSK submarines, develop UUCVs, etc...
Seems like a lot of projects for a nation with only 40 billion a year
on defense compared to 400 billion by the US. I think they will
accomplish more with less money until the EU unifies and the defense
pot is merged.

As for the Firefly II stealth aircraft, two were seen over the
Overberg test range in the RSA years ago. The RSA allows Germany to
test secret weapons there like they did off their coast with the
German subs provided to Israel. Germany modified their launch tubes to
fire the Popeye Turbo cruise missile and they tested it at sea off the
RSA. German technicians were onboard. So I am not living in a fantasy
world. You OTOH are in denial.

So you have no actual evidence. That figures.

The Overberg test range tests various RSA weapons too. Try yourself to
get some shots of what they're testing there. You couldn't get
evidence either anymore than you taking a trip up to Area 51 with a
camera. The Aussies have been claiming for years of scalar weapons
testing in the outback and requested local assistance in determing the
weapons there. Guess what. The agencies were stopped by the military
and turned back. So does that mean the Aussies live in fantasy land?

What are you smoking that gives you these delusions? Still no evidence..and
what the hell is a "scalar weapon"?

Stop using the SciFi Channel as your primary resource.

Brooks


Rob

From: "Kevin Brooks"

I don't know
who the hell you were trying to impress with this little sideshow attack on
Ed,

Well, Rasimus attacked me with his misapplied Mill quote, which he wields
frequently, when I asked Kramer a tongue-in-cheek question. By the way, you
are the moron who thought Gar Alperovitz was straying outside his area of
expertise when he wrote about the Hiroshima bombing. I got a good solid belly
laugh out of that. It was so good I even passed it around to some people who
have asked what the value of reading Usenet is. The answer is humor, the Three
Stooges turned loose on computer keyboards.



Chris Mark

"Chris Mark" wrote in message
...
From: "Kevin Brooks"

I don't know
who the hell you were trying to impress with this little sideshow attack
on
Ed,

Well, Rasimus attacked me

snip

Two can play at the snip-a-lot-of-stuff-away game; for cryin' out loud, your
response is so far out of date that I deleted the thread days/weeks ago.
Next time you post one out of the Dark Ages file, leave enough info intact
to get the gist of the discussion...and BTW, acknowledging snippage is in
good taste (but has anyone accused you of having much of that?).

Brooks



Chris Mark