Testing your glide. Are people doing this?

"markjen" wrote

. as was done on my 4th lesson for my PPL with my instructor.
Not only stopped the engine, but made me slow down to actually
stop the prop.

There is always controversy about how realistic to make
emergency training. I think the risk of doing this training
outweighs the benefit.

What experience do you have that indicates that this is a risky
maneuver. I made it a point to do it with every one of my students
at 4-5,000' over the not-too-busy airport. With a few hours of
C-172 gliding time, the worst thing that could happen was to land
like any other glider. My homebuilt MiniMax had a 1/2 VW engine
that could not be restarted in-flight. I regularly practiced landing
with the prop stopped in it. Practice builds confidence!
What do glider pilots do when the prop stops? :-) I certainly don't
concede them any basic skills that I don't possess.

Bob Moore
ATP CFI USN
PanAm (retired)

What experience do you have that indicates that this is a risky
maneuver.

C'mon, common sense says that stopping the prop on an powered airplane is
maneuver that has some risk. As I said there is a tradeoff. Let's not get
into arguing over the tradeoff or what risk is acceptable. This is just a
rehash of the old spin training debate.

And certainly the airplane and environment matters. There is little risk in
practicing very realistic engine-one scenarios in a low-traffic environment
with a plane like a C-172 or VW-powered homebuilt. But it's a whole
different deal in a Bonanza or T210 at a busy field.

You make your own tradeoff, but if I ever have a CFI that wants to practice
the maneuver to the point of stopping the engine, I'll decline and find
another CFI.

- Mark

That is the problem practicing emergency procedures in the airplane, you can
make a real emergency out of a pretend one.

Mike
MU-2


"Happy Dog" wrote in message
. ..
"Montblack"


"Real world" is with the engine out. Prop stopped or creating drag by
windmilling. (Little low? Just use a slightly more aggressive engine
warming.)Which makes me wonder: What if someone, trying this (and it
doesn't sound completely crazy), couldn't restart the engine? (And had a
less than perfect landing...) Is it just the same as a glider making an
off
field landing accident?

le moo

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
That is the problem practicing emergency procedures in the airplane, you
can
make a real emergency out of a pretend one.

Agreed. But I've heard from more than a few people that their instructor
has done this.

le moo



Mike
MU-2


"Happy Dog" wrote in message
. ..
"Montblack"


"Real world" is with the engine out. Prop stopped or creating drag by
windmilling. (Little low? Just use a slightly more aggressive engine
warming.)Which makes me wonder: What if someone, trying this (and it
doesn't sound completely crazy), couldn't restart the engine? (And had
a
less than perfect landing...) Is it just the same as a glider making an
off
field landing accident?

le moo

My instructor was one of them. He did it until the day it became a real
emergency. The FAA's reaction was such that he decided not to do it anymore.
On the other hand, I have gone out to a large mudflat near Tucson in my
Rans and shut it down from 2000' or so and dead sticked it in numerous
times. The flat is about a mile in diameter, Rans uses about 200' to land.
Learned that it glided far better than I was led to believe.

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




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Mike Rapoport wrote:
That is the problem practicing emergency procedures in the airplane, you can
make a real emergency out of a pretend one.

Mike
MU-2

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
. ..

"Montblack"


"Real world" is with the engine out. Prop stopped or creating drag by
windmilling. (Little low? Just use a slightly more aggressive engine
warming.)Which makes me wonder: What if someone, trying this (and it
doesn't sound completely crazy), couldn't restart the engine? (And had a
less than perfect landing...) Is it just the same as a glider making an

off

field landing accident?

le moo

When I was 15 or 16, at an Epps family reunion Doug Epps took me up in a
J-3. He said he wanted to practice deadstick landings.

He'd get over the field (2000' grass), shut down the engine, pull the
nose up until the prop stopped, then land. When we stopped, he'd step
halfway out of the cockpit, reach forward and start the engine, and up
we'd go again.

He started out aiming at midfield and slipping like hell on final. He
worked his way back until the last landing I remember we were skimming
across the bean field, and I was wondering whether we'd make it or not.

It was a while before I realized *everybody* didn't do it that way.
--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

good number to keep in your head for lower altitudes.

Not sure why you refer to "lower altitudes". The glide angle is
constant with altitude.

One of the big problems confronting a pilot in an actual engine out, is getting
over the shock of the reality of the occurance. Some pilots (people in
general) will "choke" or mentally freeze up and not think constructively about
dealing with the situation. ( 'I can't believe my engine quit!' syndrome)
Constantly training/practicing/"rehearsing" will help a pilot get past this
hurdle. By knowing what the next "planned" move will be. That's part of the
value of regular practice.
VL
(Oh gawd, he's on his soapbox again)

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
good number to keep in your head for lower altitudes.

Not sure why you refer to "lower altitudes". The glide angle is
constant with altitude.

Because there's "overhead". Gliding from a higher altitude, one normally
will be able to spend a larger proportion of the glide at the optimal best
glide speed. The glide angle is only theoretically constant with altitude.
In reality, no one goes directly to best glide the instant the engine fails
and the glide angle after engine failure varies as the pilot reacts.

Pete

Because there's "overhead".

Ah, gotcha.