Commercial certificate question

You only have a definition for "one hour after sunset" if you have a legal
definition of "sunset", and you don't.

Jim



"Jose" wrote in message
...
And, as we have said for a number of years, none of these "non-day" times
have a legal definition within the FAR.

Well, I don't know about that. "one hour after sunset" is used thusly in
the FARs and and is therefore a kind of "non-day" that is defined in the
FARs, though a name isn't given to it.

That hinges upon what the definition of "definition" is.

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
You only have a definition for "one hour after sunset" if you have a legal
definition of "sunset", and you don't.

Jim



"Jose" wrote in message
...
And, as we have said for a number of years, none of these "non-day"
times have a legal definition within the FAR.

Well, I don't know about that. "one hour after sunset" is used thusly in
the FARs and and is therefore a kind of "non-day" that is defined in the
FARs, though a name isn't given to it.

Me, I just look out the window. If it's night out, I log it as night.

You only have a definition for "one hour after sunset" if you have a legal
definition of "sunset", and you don't.

This is only true if "sunset" is a term of art. Absent such a
term-of-art definition, the generally accepted definition of the English
word would be used. I suppose there could be a question as to whether
the sun's image needs to be fully, partially, or not at all visible
would come into play. The fact that the sun itself can be below the
horizon when it is still visible would likely be ignored in this case.

I suppose to take your position further, we'd need a definition of "one"
(this is non-trivial), and "after" (which is also non-trivial for
sufficiently energetic turbine engine spac...er... aircraft.)

The word "hour" would also need a definition. This one is easier, as
the "second" is precisely defined as a certain number of vibrations of a
cesium atom under specified conditions, and there are sixty of them...
wait - we need a definition of "sixty".

And we need a definition of all the words used in all the aforesaid
definitions.

Man, I wish I were a laywer.

Of course, then I'd have to study law. I can think of fewer more odious
occupations.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:31:14 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:

Just seems like a whacky requirement to me at this point in my flying
career. :-)


Don't feel bad, I had a guy come to me with over 4000 x-c hours with
about 4500 total and wanted to do his initial commercial multi and we
had to drone through the sky for the 2 hour day and 2 hour night
requirements. I felt like a theft taking his money but we had to do
it to satisfy the requirements..

Scott D.

Don't feel bad, I had a guy come to me with over 4000 x-c hours with
about 4500 total and wanted to do his initial commercial multi and we
had to drone through the sky for the 2 hour day and 2 hour night
requirements. I felt like a theft taking his money but we had to do
it to satisfy the requirements..

What did you do with him to take advantage of the time?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Scott D wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:31:14 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote:


Just seems like a whacky requirement to me at this point in my flying
career. :-)



Don't feel bad, I had a guy come to me with over 4000 x-c hours with
about 4500 total and wanted to do his initial commercial multi and we
had to drone through the sky for the 2 hour day and 2 hour night
requirements. I felt like a theft taking his money but we had to do
it to satisfy the requirements..

Scott D.

I don't feel bad. It will be flying after all! :-) I'd just rather
spend the time and money practicing the new stuff like chandelles, etc.

Matt

Jose wrote in news:Qbhbf.3995$Lv.1888
@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

Yes, there is nautical twilight and astronomical twilight

As Spock would say - "fascinating". What is the reason for all these
different twilights? (never mind, if the FAA can have two different
definitions of night, I might as well just go google myself.

Jose

Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the
evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the
horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient,
under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly
distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of
evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest
stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of
moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of
civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight,
artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor
activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the
beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of
evening civil twilight.

Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in
the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below
the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good
atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general
outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor
operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.

Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end
in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees
below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the
morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun
does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval
after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening
twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically
imperceptible.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
Jose wrote in news:Qbhbf.3995$Lv.1888
@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

Yes, there is nautical twilight and astronomical twilight

As Spock would say - "fascinating". What is the reason for all these
different twilights? (never mind, if the FAA can have two different
definitions of night, I might as well just go google myself.

Jose

Civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the
evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the
horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient,
under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly
distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of
evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest
stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of
moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of
civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight,
artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor
activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the
beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of
evening civil twilight.

Nautical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in
the evening, when the center of the sun is geometrically 12 degrees below
the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good
atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general
outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor
operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.

Astronomical twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end
in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 18 degrees
below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the
morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the Sun
does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval
after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening
twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically
imperceptible.

--


And stars of the 6th magnitude ( the faintest naked-eye stars) become
visible at the zenith.........

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 05:41:56 GMT, Jose
wrote:

Don't feel bad, I had a guy come to me with over 4000 x-c hours with
about 4500 total and wanted to do his initial commercial multi and we
had to drone through the sky for the 2 hour day and 2 hour night
requirements. I felt like a theft taking his money but we had to do
it to satisfy the requirements..

What did you do with him to take advantage of the time?

Jose

Nothing really, We did go over the 530 and its functions but we
basically just punched a hole through the sky. He was already roughly
familiar with the plane as far as the characteristics so he was
comfortable with it.

Scott D.