Mxs wins.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
using these stupid Google Groups (which I'm stuck using at the hotel),

Of course, that's not true. Martin will give you Usenet access on his
server, and there used to be free Usenet accounts available for
text-based newsgroups, IIRC.

I only have web access on our two DSL lines at the hotel.

That is highly unlikely. It would only be true if your DSL ISP was
filtering your Internet traffic, allowing only stuff on port 80 (and maybe
8080) through.

If I recall correctly, you offer Internet access to your customers through
the same DSL connection, and I guarantee you they would be having huge fits
if their Internet access was restricted to port 80.

I have no
way to access email or newgroups directly, as a result. (I therefore
also must use the web to access my email -- which also drives me nuts.)

As Larry said, Martin's already offered you newsgroup access. All you need
is an Internet connection (which you have), a user account on his server
(which Martin will provide), and the name of his server (which Martin also
can provide).

Ditto with email. I find it remarkable that your Internet connection comes
without ANY sort of email service, but it's not hard to find someone who can
provide that for you.

All that said, I suspect that you are incorrect about your assertion that
you don't have email or newsgroup access. In particular, you appear to be
using Mediacom as your Internet provider, and they DO include email and
newsgroup access. For email, you would use mail.mchsi.com (for both the POP
and SMTP servers), and for newsgroups you would use netnews.mchsi.com.
Login using your email user name and password.

Are you saying there's another solution, short of upgrading our hotel's
internet service?

I doubt you need to upgrade your hotel's Internet service even to get email
and newsgroups *through your own ISP*. But even if they aren't offering
those services to your account, they are available through other sources.
Newsgroups you already have an offer for free access, and email you can
probably mooch one if you ask.

Pete

Are you saying there's another solution, short of upgrading our hotel's
internet service?

I doubt you need to upgrade your hotel's Internet service even to get email
and newsgroups *through your own ISP*.

Our hotel DSL lines are provided by Qwest. Our ISP is Mediacom, a
cable-modem company (which we have at home). It would be an extra
charge each month for email and newsgroup access through Qwest at the
hotel -- times two DSL accounts -- which makes little sense if it's
just for me to screw around on Usenet between phone calls.... ;-)

Google Groups actually isn't half bad, once you get used to it. It
doesn't offer the same level of filtering as Outlook (Express), but
I've only kill-filed one person in my 8+ years here, so that doesn't
bother me. And the search features can be quite valuable.

Newsgroups you already have an offer for free access, and email you can
probably mooch one if you ask.

If we're talking about Martin Hotze, I don't recall him offering me
free access to anything. I could be wrong, of course.

Web-based email takes a bit getting used to, but after a while it's
kind of nice having your email stored on a central server that is
accessible from anywhere, rather than downloading your email onto your
computer, ala Outlook (Express).
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Skipping a thread -- or marking it "read" -- takes a second. I'm
unable to do even that using these stupid Google Groups (which I'm
stuck using at the hotel), but I don't find it difficult to simply not
read dumb threads.

Even if you have the ability to filter, the problem in my book is he
doesn't stick to the inane threads he starts, which are easy enough to
ignore in any case. He also posts in legitmate threads and soon enough
they turn into a steaming pile of crap too. Except there may also be
some useful discussion still trying to go on, so you've got to either
wade through the crap or just give up altogether.

I don't have a problem with him simming or not wanting to fly in a real
plane - that's entirely up to him. If he were a student pilot behaving
the same way it would be just as bad. Obviously he's well aware by now
that there are plenty of books out there, as well as material on the
web, so if he were actually interested in learning anything he could
spend his time reading and then come back when he has some more
intelligent questions to ask. I don't understand how anyone can defend
his behaviour - it's classic trolling and should be met with the
equally classic "RTFM!"

todd.

tjd wrote:
Even if you have the ability to filter, the problem in my book is he
doesn't stick to the inane threads he starts, which are easy enough to
ignore in any case. He also posts in legitmate threads and soon enough
they turn into a steaming pile of crap too.

The reason some threads turn into crap, is because people (including
you) respond to him with off-topic attempts at derision, humor, and
whining. Otherwise his threads would mostly be made up of interesting
replies from experienced people.

[...] I don't understand how anyone can defend his behaviour -

This is usenet. His behavior speaks for itself and is what it is.
He's ungrateful and obstinate. Big deal. Grow up. That describes
half the 'net. What you CANNOT defend is the unbelievably childish and
offensive response to him. Everyone involved in that kind of behavior
should be ashamed.

it's classic trolling and should be met with the
equally classic "RTFM!"

To quote Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means you what think
it means". Anyone calling him a troll has obviously never been really
trolled, and is probably a relative newbie to the online world.

If people didn't respond to him with idiotic comments, then his threads
would be far less wasteful to everyone.

Kev

Kev,

That describes
half the 'net.


Maybe. But not this group.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Kev wrote:
Anyone calling him a troll has obviously never been really
trolled, and is probably a relative newbie to the online world.

In my book, the essence of trolling involves baiting people - or maybe
even more generally, intentionally causing a disruption. If your
personal definition is narrower than that, feel free to call it
something else.

I'm not looking to get into an argument with you or anyone else, I'm
sure we're all frustrated by this situation. I try to ignore him, but
I'll admit I took some pot-shots at him and I can't exactly defend that
as "mature" behaviour. But, come on, I posted what I thought was a
calm, rational statement in this thread and you respond with a
patronizing attitude and name-calling - is that really any better? I'm
willing to just leave it at that - you're not the problem, I'm not the
problem, and no-one who responds to him is the problem.

What do you think is the purpose of his behaviour? Does he really want
to learn something? Maybe he does, but if you assume that's his only
agenda, there are far more efficient ways to go about it than asking
questions on a newsgroup. But he refuses to even open a book, some of
which (like the FAA pubs) are freely available online and won't cost
him a cent. So, I think he clearly has another agenda, whether that's
to cause disruption, garner some attention for himself, or whatever -
and that's what I have a problem with. Unfortunately he's been wildly
successful, and regardless of how long you've been on the net I doubt
you can point me to an instance where telling people not to respond to
someone has had the desired effect.

todd.

On 24 Oct 2006 12:37:09 -0700, "tjd" wrote in
om:

In my book, the essence of trolling involves baiting people - or maybe
even more generally, intentionally causing a disruption. If your
personal definition is narrower than that, feel free to call it
something else.

http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#troll
troll v.,n.

1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting
on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or,
the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies"
which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing
in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.
The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies
and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they
already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and
experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't
fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT.

2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly
posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a
newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than
to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable
by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the
topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the
ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming
characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form
of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll."

3.[Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS
students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab
policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves
lurking in dark cavelike corners.

Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower
category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by
containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly
controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.

Jim:

Tired of MXS? Then just killfile him. I'll read the first
couple posts then killfile the thread, because by that time,
it's disintegrated into noise.

"Morgans" wrote in
:

Well, I'm going to take a break from this group for a while. The signal
to noise level is so high, and the volume of junk so large, it takes too
much time and annoys me.

I'm tired of being called a netcop, among other things, and since all
of you
"weenies" that are enabling this troll by responding have pushed this
group into the dumpster, as far as I am concerned.

I'll check back from time to time, and when he goes, I'll return.

See you in the funny papers! g

Hi Jim,
I think you're being a bit too sensitive, simply because the guy admitted
that he's not a pilot. I never saw you reprimand any of the regulars on
this group for answering OT questions, or even for responding to flames and
trolls who were clearly just out trolling.

If there are pilots in the group that enjoy talking about his topics, it
would seem that the messages even meet the charter.

Personally, I stopped visiting the newsgroup for a while when I would log
on after a week and there would be no new posts except maybe an occassional
post about how there are no new posts... I like it better this way, I
think. Some of Manix's questions spark some interesting conversations. I
thought the thread about Rented vs. Owned was quite informative, and Jay
even admitted that it was sparked by a Manix post...

Sometimes even the trollers stir up some good fishin'...

For the record, I don't like being called a "weenie" any more than you
like being called a netcop. But it's just a newsgroup! You know, something
to do to pass the time when I can't otherwise be in an airplane.

Morgans wrote:
Well, I'm going to take a break from this group for a while. The signal to
noise level is so high, and the volume of junk so large, it takes too much time
and annoys me.

I'm tired of being called a netcop, among other things, and since all of you
"weenies" that are enabling this troll by responding have pushed this group into
the dumpster, as far as I am concerned.

I'll check back from time to time, and when he goes, I'll return.

See you in the funny papers! g
--
Jim in NC

Sorry for calling some of you weenies, but that's how I see it, at the moment.

Try I-pilot.com. I like it much better there. See if you can find
Skylune there. ;-)