It only takes one...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
This evening, one careless, clueless, oblivious, inattentive (choose one)
pilot made a shambles of the pattern at my home field for 10 minutes.

It was 20 minutes before dusk and the flock was returning home - there
were aircraft in the pattern and at least 3 inbound. A guy (in a Cessna)
announced a midfield crossover entry into the pattern for a touch and go,
but indicated that he'd have to extend his downwind because he was 500'
above pattern altitude. Fair enough, I thought - the guy is gonna fly a
normal downwind + 1/2 mile.

Long story short, the guy flew a normal downwind plus 2.5 miles, and his
downwind was literally a mile wide to boot...

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I
followed with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the
traffic pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to
let things correct themselves.

Then the original Cessna flying doofus flew an abbreviated upwind and
crosswind after his touch and go and cut off the folks who had loitered
waiting for everything to sort itself out. Aargh! I don't think I'll
ever understand this type of pilot...

The question in my mind was... Did the Cessna flying doofus even realize
that A) he was flying a dumb and dangerous pattern, being outside of
gliding range from the field, or that B) he caused a bad chain reaction in
the pattern.??

As I said: It only takes one.
One?

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/189177-1.html

February 20, 2005

The Pilot's Lounge #84: Arrogance, Etiquette And Big Fat Traffic
Patterns

'Are you going to land here or keep going on downwind into the next county?'
It's painful to be in the pattern behind a pilot who thinks a stabilized
final approach in a Cessna means a two-mile final. But just what are the
rules and safe practices regarding the size of a traffic pattern? AVweb's
Rick Durden looks into it this month in The Pilot's Lounge.

By Rick Durden, Columnist

Flying the pattern also means understanding who's ahead or behind you. It's
unrealistic to expect a G-V fly a pattern behind a guy in a 150.

Both of my planes have a difficult time flying a pattern with a 150- I need
to be at least at 100, and preferably 120k. Otherwise I'll be hanging on the
prop in slow flight, and SOL if the engine quits, or in the other case, well
below Vyse if an engine quits. Neither is a good situation.

Yet, flying a wider and faster pattern commensurate with the safer speeds
often leads me to be either cut off, or having to do S turns for the 150
pilot doing a five mile 65K final.

The same guy who flies the 5 mile final also tends to use all of the 5500
foot runway to turn off as a matter of convenience.

So, how about thinking about the people behind you as well as in front of
you in the pattern?


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
. ..
This evening, one careless, clueless, oblivious, inattentive (choose one)
pilot made a shambles of the pattern at my home field for 10 minutes.

It was 20 minutes before dusk and the flock was returning home - there
were aircraft in the pattern and at least 3 inbound. A guy (in a Cessna)
announced a midfield crossover entry into the pattern for a touch and go,
but indicated that he'd have to extend his downwind because he was 500'
above pattern altitude. Fair enough, I thought - the guy is gonna fly a
normal downwind + 1/2 mile.

Long story short, the guy flew a normal downwind plus 2.5 miles, and his
downwind was literally a mile wide to boot...

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I
followed with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the
traffic pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to
let things correct themselves.

Then the original Cessna flying doofus flew an abbreviated upwind and
crosswind after his touch and go and cut off the folks who had loitered
waiting for everything to sort itself out. Aargh! I don't think I'll
ever understand this type of pilot...

The question in my mind was... Did the Cessna flying doofus even realize
that A) he was flying a dumb and dangerous pattern, being outside of
gliding range from the field, or that B) he caused a bad chain reaction
in the pattern.??

As I said: It only takes one.
One?

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/189177-1.html

February 20, 2005

The Pilot's Lounge #84: Arrogance, Etiquette And Big Fat Traffic
Patterns

'Are you going to land here or keep going on downwind into the next
county?' It's painful to be in the pattern behind a pilot who thinks a
stabilized final approach in a Cessna means a two-mile final. But just
what are the rules and safe practices regarding the size of a traffic
pattern? AVweb's Rick Durden looks into it this month in The Pilot's
Lounge.

By Rick Durden, Columnist

Viperdoc wrote:

So, how about thinking about the people behind you as well as in front of
you in the pattern?


And please extend this thinking to the drive home or to the airstrip.

Or grocery store, or work...

In article ,
"Viperdoc" wrote:

Flying the pattern also means understanding who's ahead or behind you. It's
unrealistic to expect a G-V fly a pattern behind a guy in a 150.

Both of my planes have a difficult time flying a pattern with a 150- I need
to be at least at 100, and preferably 120k. Otherwise I'll be hanging on the
prop in slow flight, and SOL if the engine quits, or in the other case, well
below Vyse if an engine quits. Neither is a good situation.

Yet, flying a wider and faster pattern commensurate with the safer speeds
often leads me to be either cut off, or having to do S turns for the 150
pilot doing a five mile 65K final.

The same guy who flies the 5 mile final also tends to use all of the 5500
foot runway to turn off as a matter of convenience.

So, how about thinking about the people behind you as well as in front of
you in the pattern?


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney in,
spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided to take
exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the center of
our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right, please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he decided
to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it up, applied
climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The sound of 2
R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:14 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney in,
spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided to take
exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the center of
our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right, please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he decided
to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it up, applied
climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The sound of 2
R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

Are you able to quote a specific regulation that prevents you from
landing behind the aircraft in these situations?

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 02 May 2007 17:32:14 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in
:


I've had that happen to me! I extended a formation to let a Mooney
in, spaced myself so he would clear at the second exit -- he decided
to take exit #3, while slowing down to taxi speed and keeping in the
center of our 150 ft wide runway! I radioed, "Mooney clear right,
please." Nothing!

Another time (some 40+ years ago, I was flying a Beech 18 into an
airport, where a Champ was doing T&Gs. I spaced myself, but he
decided to stay on the runway and slow-taxi to the end. I cleaned it
up, applied climb power and held it low until I passed over him. The
sound of 2 R-985s at climb power HAD to get his attention!

Are you able to quote a specific regulation that prevents you from
landing behind the aircraft in these situations?

The laws of physics might come into play.

I screwed up a pattern real good once. I didn't then proceed to
screw everyone over, though.

It's the gift that keeps giving, too. Like a car accident. Once
the accident is cleared up, traffic is still messed up for hours
afterward.

I felt so bad.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Long story short, the guy flew a normal downwind plus 2.5 miles, and his
downwind was literally a mile wide to boot...

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I followed
with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the traffic
pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to let things
correct themselves.

This has recently become a significant pet peave of mine. There are a
fairly large number of inexperienced private pilots at my airport, who
are all flying these ridiculously wide patterns. It seems to be the
"fault" of our one particular old flight instructor. All of his
students seem to do this, and it drives me crazy. He apparently flew
WWII transport size aircraft, so that may explain it. That Avweb
article that was cited was really good. I think I'll print a few copies
and leave it around the airport.

--- Jay

--

Jay Masino "Home is where My critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

Kyle Boatright wrote:

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I followed
with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the traffic
pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to let things
correct themselves.


If he'd just kept on going, would you guys have kept on following? If
someone ahead of me is flying 2.5 miles beyond the normal downwind, I turn
base. I'll be tying up the airplane before he gets back.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1

"flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:7197219d35910@uwe...
Kyle Boatright wrote:

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I
followed
with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the traffic
pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to let
things
correct themselves.


If he'd just kept on going, would you guys have kept on following?

Interesting question. I was #4 on downwind. If #2 had turned base, I think
that would have been reasonable, but #4 turning base in front of 3 people on
downwind might not have been appropriate...

KB

If
someone ahead of me is flying 2.5 miles beyond the normal downwind, I turn
base. I'll be tying up the airplane before he gets back.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1