Gloom

On 2007-06-17 22:10:31 -0400, Helen said:

Jay, it's not technically a Piper, but you ought to check out the new
SportCruiser we rent and sell:

http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/sales.htm
http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/

This plane is what Piper would have come up with if they had entered
the light sport market. It is seriously roomy, fast, quiet, and burns
just 3gph with Piper handing and custom panel. We're renting it at
$85/h factory new.

IMHO, Piper is foolish for not going into this market. We've had our
school open for just under two months and are picking up students from
4 states at a rate of a half dozen a week. We are struggling to add
planes and instructors fast enough to keep up with the demand. We've
had the SportCruiser for a matter of weeks and already it is booking up
solid.

Piper's future in piston GA may be doomed, but certainly GA itself.
The LSA market will see to that.

Helen


You are absolutely correct in my opinion. It's aircraft like this that
will save General Aviation if indeed, after the lawyers, and the
government have finished with it, there is anything left of General
Aviation to be saved.
These airplanes are marvels of design and engineering. They have
entered the market at exactly the right time. Now, if the lawyers can
only keep their greedy hands out of the pockets of the manufacturers
causing that 85 an hour to go to 185 an hour to cover fear of
litigation costs, GA just might have a chance.
Dudley Henriques

Helen wrote:

Piper's future in piston GA may be doomed, but certainly GA itself. The
LSA market will see to that.

Helen

I don't see LSA as the savior of GA.

Ron Lee

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:
[...]
In his speech, Mr. Bass touted the fact that Piper had gone back to
its original name (no more "New Piper" nonsense), had returned to
profitability, and recovered from the three hurricanes that had
devastated their Vero Beach facilities. All good things, indeed, and
each announcement was met with enthusiastic applause.

What are they selling that has returned them to profitability?

[...]
Then Bass went on to spend half an hour trumpeting the new PiperJet,
which has supposedly already racked up 180 firm orders. With a whiz-
bang PowerPoint presentation, he went on to outline the features of
this $2+ million jet to a room full of Cherokee pilots -- all of whom
only wanted to hear about piston singles.

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't being
called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a very short
time.

[...]
God almighty, folks, as if the writing wasn't on the wall enough, this
fly-in has proved to me that our beloved GA is teetering at the abyss.
I looked around the ballroom, at all these gray-haired old guys
wearing brightly-colored, aviation themed Hawaiian shirts, and
realized that I was possibly witnessing the end of an era. Between
"User Fees" on one side, fuel costs on the other, and an aging pilot
community, I don't know anymore what to think or do.

Sure, you do. But, denial is a powerful thing. If someone can't spring for
a new $.5M piston single they'll be forced to either buy into a plane with
a very short operative lifetime due to a lack of replacement parts or fold
their tent. I hate to add to the gloom, but the picture has looked bleak
for a couple of years, now. The only hope is that LSA can fill in the gap
between reasonably priced used singles and new planes that are out of
reach for most GA pilots.

Neil

What are they selling that has returned them to profitability?

Apparently the Malibu, Meridian, and Cherokee Six.

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't being
called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a very short
time.

I don't think so. Bass is estimating that the PiperJet will require a
$100 million dollar investment over the next ten years. He also
claims that they can make money selling them from the very first one
-- which, of course, doesn't factor in a return on his investment.

I don't know anymore what to think or do.

Sure, you do. But, denial is a powerful thing. If someone can't spring for
a new $.5M piston single they'll be forced to either buy into a plane with
a very short operative lifetime due to a lack of replacement parts or fold
their tent. I hate to add to the gloom, but the picture has looked bleak
for a couple of years, now. The only hope is that LSA can fill in the gap
between reasonably priced used singles and new planes that are out of
reach for most GA pilots.

I agree, although the cost of LSAs is certainly no bargan. You can
buy a VERY nice Cherokee 140 for half of what the cheapest LSA is
going for nowadays.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2007-06-18, Jay Honeck wrote:
I agree, although the cost of LSAs is certainly no bargan. You can
buy a VERY nice Cherokee 140 for half of what the cheapest LSA is
going for nowadays.

Looking at the LSA earlier in the thread - if I had the choice of going
in and buying one of those with three other people, versus outright
owning a Cherokee 140, I'd buy the LSA in a heartbeat. The LSA mentioned
earlier in the thread looks so damned sexy, and burns about 1/3rd of the
fuel of a Cherokee 140 and probably goes as fast.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Neil Gould writes:

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't being
called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a very short
time.

In today's world of anonymous and institutional shareholders, a very short
time is the only kind of time--nobody plans for the long term. The objective
is to make maximum profits in minimum time. If a company ceases to do that,
it is carved into pieces and sold. Nobody cares about what the company
produces or how long it lives; it's just an interchangeable profit machine
that is dismantled and discarded once it ceases to produce profits quickly
enough.

That's the way all large public corporations are being managed these days, and
the results for society are always the same.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Neil Gould writes:

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't
being called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a
very short time.

In today's world of anonymous and institutional shareholders, a very
short time is the only kind of time--nobody plans for the long term.
The objective is to make maximum profits in minimum time.

Never a prob for you, eh bankrupt boi?


Bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

nobody plans for the long term.

Why are you applying your habits to all of mankind?

As I mentioned to my A&P this afternoon, GA has one foot in the grave
and the other on ice. Remember the fuel chart showing 100LL
deliveries with a steady decline over the last decade or so? We
supposedly have over 400 aircraft at my field and there were about 150
ops today, with 84 of those from 42 T&Gs.

If the FAA gets their way with user fees and higher fuel taxes, the
other foot is gone.

Ron Lee

He went on to state that Piper would no longer be able to provide
parts support for "ancient" aircraft, and tossed out a "maximum" age
of 25 years.

That's a familiar number. Isn't that the age at which liability ends,
or somesuch?

everything in their business was now dictated by
product liability.

There you go.

Mary and I will keep on keeping on, flying as often and as far as we
can, spreading the good word of aviation

How much flying would you be doing if you could not write off any of it?

Jose
--
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