Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Either you're not following along, or you just want to argue.


I don't think you're following along. We're talking about an IFR departure.
An IFR departure isn't going to request flight following. He doesn't need
to, he's going to get radar advisories automatically.

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 9/23/2005 11:34, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...


or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.

ELM routinely hands off VFR departures to departure control. You have
to specifically request not to have radar services if you don't want the
hand-off.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

ELM routinely hands off VFR departures to departure control. You have to
specifically request not to have radar services if you don't want the
hand-off.


ELM has a TRSA. As in all TRSAs, departing aircraft are assumed to want
TRSA services unless the pilot states otherwise.

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?

They do when you've requested flight following.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA


Here in Dallas, they never send any VFR aircraft to 'Departure'. To my
knowledge, the term 'Departure' is only used with IFR aircraft. For a VFR
departure requesting 'flight following', they always tell them to contact
'Approach Control'.

Russ

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for departure?



About 2-3 minutes.


Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


Have no idea about that, it's not a familiar airport to me.



I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.


How did you come to be on a 270 vector? Sugarland has only a north-south runway and the tower assigned
runway heading. Who then assigned a west heading and for what purpose?


Hmm, yes, I may have that sequence out of order. I was given the new squawk,
and sometime after that I was asked if I was VFR, but I can't remember if I was
given the vector before or after the VFR question.



Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.


If some time elapsed between issuance of IFR clearance and taxiing for departure ground control may have
forgotten that you were an IFR departure and prepared a new VFR strip for local control. Did you request
taxi right after getting your clearance? If not, did you tell ground you were IFR when you called for taxi?


It was only 2-3 minutes, and I did not tell him I was IFR at taxi time. But it was
45 minutes later when I was finally #1 for departure.


Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).


Are you sure the code was 0044? The National Beacon Code Allocation Plan assigns codes 0100-0477 to terminal
operations, it doesn't assign the block 0000-0077 to any purpose (which I find rather odd). Since your
flight was entirely within Houston Center you should have been assigned a code from one of ZHU's internal
departure blocks; 45xx, 46xx, or 47xx.

Yes, I am sure about the 0044, I just checked where I had written it on my clipboard.
The original code I was given by ground control was 4553.

Thanks!
John

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

About 2-3 minutes.


Then the episode appears to be a brain fart on the part of the ground
controller.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

About 2-3 minutes.


Then the episode appears to be a brain fart on the part of the ground controller.

If so, what was it he did (or didn't do) incorrectly?

Thanks,
John

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

If so, what was it he did (or didn't do) incorrectly?


It appears he forgot that he had just issued you an IFR clearance and
treated you as a VFR departure.

"Waiting for IFR release". It says it all.

John Clonts wrote On 09/23/05 09:01,:
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Scott Moore" wrote in message
...
"Waiting for IFR release". It says it all.

It gets the message across but for the hair-splitters out there it may not
be accurate.

You're actually waiting for takeoff clearance. You may or may not be
waiting for IFR release.

An IFR release is an internal ATC procedure between the tower and IFR
facility responsible for that airport.

The tower may need to call for each individual release. It may have already
called and gotten it while you were taxiing. It may have automatic
releases. It may operate one way during one part of the day and another way
during other times. It may normally operate one way all day but for reasons
of his own the departure controller shut off the flow.

A pilot really has no way to know which procedure is in effect or any real
reason to care.

When you say "N12345 is ready" the local controller will issue takeoff
clearance as soon as he's able.

If you say "N12345 is ready IFR" he'll know to look for the IFR strip (many
towers don't use strips for VFR) to ensure everything is copasetic before
issuing takeoff clearance. That includes getting a release if he needs one.

John Clonts wrote On 09/23/05 09:01,:
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ