Confusion

However, this does not negate my original comment. If departing IFR,
in the ABSENCE of such an instruction, be suspicious.

In my case (very similar to the OP's case) I was given departing
instructions as part of my clearance by ground. Its very rare to
receive those instructions again from tower so you wouldn't find it
odd if it wasn't repeated. I guess the ground and tower controllers
don't always coordinate as well as they should.

-robert

writes:

I must say that I have never received a VFR clearance which said "turn
left heading xxx" or "fly runway heading" on takeoff. Where I fly,
these are not VFR departure instructions. Perhaps they are elsewhere.

At DCA, ah the good old days.

I must say that I have never received a VFR clearance which said "turn
left heading xxx" or "fly runway heading" on takeoff. Where I fly,
these are not VFR departure instructions. Perhaps they are elsewhere.

Here at ACY (Class C), for a VFR departure we almost always get "fly runway
heading, maintain at or below 1500". Occasionally when issuing the takeoff
clearance Tower will also clear us to turn on course .

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.


Sounds like somebody dropped the soap. I usually make my first contact to
clearance delivery by stating words to the effect: "Cessna 1234Alpha IFR to
Miami with golf, requesting clearance." After that, it's all on them.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Nov 27, 4:05 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Jon Woellhaf wrote:
Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Sounds like somebody dropped the soap. I usually make my first contact to
clearance delivery by stating words to the effect: "Cessna 1234Alpha IFR to
Miami with golf, requesting clearance." After that, it's all on them.

By then you are already in the system. In the OP's case he was
airborne, assuming he had IFR services provided, and then found out
the ball was dropped. Once you go to departure is probably too late.

I did have departure once tell me "radar services terminated, squawk
VFR". I told him "unable, IFR".

-Robert

In article ,
"Jon Woellhaf" wrote:

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

Now I understand why at VNY, clearance delivery always tells you to
"advise the tower you are IFR" after they issue a clearance.

rg

I was always taught (and always use!) "IFR" in my comms with both
ground and tower/clearance delivery. "Cessna 1234 at ... ready to
taxi, IFR" AND in the runup area "Cessna 1234 at ... ready for IFR
departure". I do NOT wait for my release at the hold short line,
because if there is a delay (incoming traffic etc), I will be blocking
traffic departing VFR.

--Jeff

On Nov 27, 1:14 pm, "Jon Woellhaf" wrote:
I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:14:36 -0700, "Jon Woellhaf"
wrote:

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.

In most instances, I would refuse to allow ATC to cancel my IFR clearance,
which is what happened in this instance.

If I've filed IFR, it's either because of weather related issues, or
occasionally because of traffic/route/airspace/TFR issues. In none of
those instances would I want to be re-negotiating an IFR clearance just
after takeoff.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:14:36 -0700, "Jon Woellhaf"
wrote:


About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

I said I'd proceed on course VFR and asked if they'd get me a clearance.
They soon got it and handed me off to departure.


In most instances, I would refuse to allow ATC to cancel my IFR clearance,
which is what happened in this instance.

If you were IMC and they started BSing you, just declare an emergency
and advise you are continuing on your clearance unless they have an
amended clearance.

On 2007-11-27 10:14:36 -0800, "Jon Woellhaf" said:

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

The tower screwed up, no doubt, but I try to avoid things like that by
saying, instead of "Ready for departure," I say "Ready for IFR release."


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor