U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Art Kramer spewed:
Billy Beck wrote:

Beck and Marron sitting in a tree ...

And this sort of childishness helps how?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


From: Mike Marron OSPAM
Date: 9/1/2003 3:33 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Phineas Pinkham" wrote:

Go easy, Mike. If you had his haemorrhoids you would be hard to live with
also. he must be spending too much time at the Slot Machines, thise stools
are very uncomfortable.

Kramer's definition of "true love" is when he wakes up in the morning
with a hickey on his hemorrhoids.

-Mike Marron

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Right. Military flying is what this is all about. Everything else is
baby
talk.

Oops there ya' go again hopping up on your soapbox with your
bullhorn trying to run the show again!

No really, this is a military aviation newsgroup.

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: "= Vox Populi ©" Vox Populi ©"
Date: 9/2/03 7:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Well then, that's the point ain't it? Some people don't actually "earn" the
medals.

And some do with their lives. The vast majority were well earned and well
deserved. In my time in the military I never knew of a single award that was
not earned, often the hard way. And many of these awards now lie on the chests
of those stiill buried in foreign soil.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: vincent Brannigan
Date: 9/2/03 8:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



"= Vox Populi ©" wrote:

Does getting lost, crashing your vehicle, being taken prisoner without
firing a
shot,
spending time in a 1st class medical hospital, and getting "rescued" from
that
unarmed,
unguarded hospital deserve a "bronze star" ?

Or does that denigrate and lessen the value, perceived or real, of those
other
soldiers
throughout many wars who actually did "earn" the BS?

How about the MOH?

7 December 1941 - *KIDD, ISAAC CAMPBELL, Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy

Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and
complete
disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by
Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. Rear Adm. Kidd immediately went to the
bridge and, as Commander Battleship Division One, courageously discharged
his
duties as Senior Officer Present Afloat until the U.S.S. Arizona, his
Flagship,
blew up from magazine explosions and a direct bomb hit on the bridge which
resulted in the loss of his life.

7 December 1941 - *VAN VALKENBURGH, FRANKLIN, Captain, U.S. Navy

Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and
complete
disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor
T.H.,
by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. As commanding officer of the U.S.S.
Arizona, Capt. Van Valkenburgh gallantly fought his ship until the U.S.S.
Arizona blew up from magazine explosions and a direct bomb hit on the bridge
which
resulted in the loss of his life.


Now these men gave their lives in the service of their country, but it is
certainly
difficult to understand what was particularly personally "heroic" about their
actions. Iprefer to think of it as a award that encapsulated all the hero's
whose
courage is not recorded. Perhaps this award falls in the same category.

Vince


Thanks for bringing reality into what, up until now, has been one of the more
disgusting threads ever on this NG.

..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thanks for bringing reality into what, up until now, has been one of the more
disgusting threads ever on this NG.

For which you, Mr. Kramer, should be proud. Congrats!

-Mike (you've definitely earned your "keyboard courage" medal) Marron

"Joey Bishop" wrote:

Then there's the 5,000 hours in C-141
cargo status... Now that's what I *demand* a medal for...

None of which appear on my civilian resume...

"Supernumerary Cargo Personnel - I packed well, was never broken
during shipping, and am compatible with other palletized goods.
Experienced in rushing and then waiting. I can be frozen, crushed,
dropped and inverted without ill effects. Never damaged any other
cargo I was packed with."



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But, the fact of the matter is that there were no B-52s lost to enemy
action until Linebacker.

Well...a D model was lost in November during one of the Freedom Porch
operations, not technically a Linebacker sortie, but I get your point. I guess
my problem was I felt you were slighting the aircrews as responsible for the 12
losses prior to 1972.

I hope you'll agree that the guy who did the 180 back into his own
cell in weather probably wasn't using the best of situational
awareness.

Actually, he did a 180 back into the following cell, and was using standard SAC
Nuclear Ops performing an orbit delay at the ARCP while he waited for the late
tanker. Good SA? Hell No! A habit pattern from years of training? Probably. For
what its worth, a WARNING was added to the T.O. specifically stating NOT to do
orbit delays at the ARCP.

We always laughed, in the fighter wings in Thailand that were going
North, that the little birds were doing the strategic mission while
the BUFFs were going tactical in-country.

Called "Coconut Knocking" sorties by the BUFF crews.

Strange war....

Not so much as you would think. Fast forward 15+ years to DESERT STORM. For a
bulk of that operation B-52Gs pounded Iraqi ground forces and mobilization
areas while F-117s hit Iraqi SOCs and other completely strategic targets. Now
jump forward another dozen years and F-117 and F-15E are hitting strategic
targets in Baghdad while 50% of the B-52 sorties are dedicated to CAS. Vietnam
wasn't strange, it was a glimpse of future air operations.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

(BUFDRVR) wrote:

Strange war....

Not so much as you would think. Fast forward 15+ years to DESERT STORM. For a
bulk of that operation B-52Gs pounded Iraqi ground forces and mobilization
areas while F-117s hit Iraqi SOCs and other completely strategic targets. Now
jump forward another dozen years and F-117 and F-15E are hitting strategic
targets in Baghdad while 50% of the B-52 sorties are dedicated to CAS. Vietnam
wasn't strange, it was a glimpse of future air operations.


I imagine Curt LeMay is doing a relatively high RPM in his grave...


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: "Gene Storey"
Date: 9/2/03 3:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

don't know about fighters, but the Connie crews could only
claim one mission a day, whether you flew 1 sortie or 2. Usually
the mission number would be xxx, then xxx-a, xxx-b, etc, and
flight records wouldn't count the extra sorties in the decoration

Ah the old Missions vs Sorties raises it's ugly head again.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer