Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

"Tina" wrote

Sometimes, though, people who are consistantly underperforming, if
training doesn't help, need to be discharged, and that can't be done
with tenure protected teachers in public school systems for example.

That is a subject that many people do not understand.

A tenured teacher is not totally protected, from being discharged for under
performing. Most people do not understand that fact.

It is true that it is more difficult to do, but if concrete reasons do
exist, the teacher is informed, written and through a conference with
administrators, of the areas of inadequate performance and possible ways to
bring the performance up to standards. If in one year, progress has not
been made, they can be dismissed.
--
Jim in NC

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB

You are assuming that these "benies" exist because of organized
labor.

Question: what laws would continue to exist if unions went away
and what laws would go away?

And which would have evolved naturally with increased productivity and
increased expertise in management (that had been going on for a couple
hundred years). That's out of Baum's mental grasp, unfortunately.
--

Funny thing is, you are all right. Everything mentioned here both pro and
con has contributed to the wages paid in this country today for most every
job. Child labor laws, health care benefits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance,
paid vacation, benefits packages, retirement, overtime pay, minimum wage,
etc, etc. It's all had a balancing effect on the wages we all draw every
day. Without unions we would all be working for less, no matter what our
profession. Unions balance the booty between the CEO and his cronies, and
the worker bees. It's that simple. Comparing upper management salaries in
the airline business to many of the fortune 500 companies are a good
example. Unions have been very successful in keeping the worker bees on a
level playing field with management. Other industries have gone quite the
opposite. Non union job work places and imports have been very successful,
even in the airline business, of offering competitive products and services
to the consumer, that greatly limit how much unions gain by bargaining
alone. The real problem now is dilution of the work force. The mass transit
system we call a southern border is adding to the number of worker bees so
fast, everything gain by the unions in the past 70 or 80 years is being lost
very quickly. Health benefits being the first to fall.

"C J Campbell" wrote

There are no new pilots without flight instructors. But airlines are
grabbing flight instructors before they have been working for two years,
so the pool of flight instructors is shrinking very rapidly. It has become
so bad that places like Embry-Riddle have been offering huge incentives
for instructors to stay beyond their 600 hour commitment. Those who are
willing to stay are given a salary of $42,000 a year plus a full benefits
package.

Although this sounds like a big improvement, and it probably is, the sad
thing is that 42 thou. is what they should have been making, in the first
place.

I know, supply demand, yada, yada, yada... All I am saying is that this
amount of pay should be expected for a person doing a demanding, highly
skilled job, and to have enough money to have a family and a nice house, and
a decent standard of living. Even then, it sure is not going to be a
luxurious standard of living, at that pay level.

It all boils down to the fact that flying is such a cool job for so many
people, that they are willing to work for lower pay, just to do the job.
--
Jim in NC

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:01:19 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

But HP didn't ask you to put one dime into her severancebucket. The
company took the risk and the company lost their money. I wouldn't
want to live in a world where I have to get permission from the gov't
to decide how I want to risk my own money.

But you do. It's called tax laws. Permission and direction (by tax law) are
ultimately, the end result of your investment choices, are the same thing.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:00:39 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

To me, the primary purpose of a for-
profit company is to maximize return to their investors. In fact in
the U.S. companies have a legal, fiduciary responsibility to do just
that. That is a central tenant of capitalism. There are other forms of
economic policies in other countries that make employment a core
mission of companies. In fact employment for the workers of a country
is a central tenant of communism as well as a core tenant of more left
leaning socialist countries ("Worker's Party", "People's Republic",
etc).
To say one type of economy is better than another is largely
philosophical issue. However, I would argue that employees in
capitalist countries fair far better than those in communist and
restricted socialist countries.

-Robert

No argument with the for-profit agenda. "Largely" as philosophical issue"is
philosophy vs real economy or the latter as defined as how much wealth is
spread, or not spread. Enter the philosophy.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in news:555ad2a8-8f27-4060-998e-
:

On Nov 27, 8:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a member
of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members. In fact,
the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think your point
is countered.

No, it isn't

Bertie


Did you just stomp your feet?


Nope.


Bertie

B A R R Y wrote in
:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:35 -0800 (PST), "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


Did you just stomp your feet?


He pouted. I swear... G


Nope.


Bertie

Bob Noel wrote in
:

In article
,
"F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a
member of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members.
In fact, the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think
your point is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a look
at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor laws,
healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid vacation,
benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the list goes
on................ If you had a great career with any of these benies
you can thank organized labor
FB

You are assuming that these "benies" exist because of organized
labor.

Question: what laws would continue to exist if unions went away
and what laws would go away?



Well, the laws that protect what you eat, for one.



Ooops. too late.


Bertie

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in
:


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article
,
"F. Baum" wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:43 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Many of us have a great successful career without every being a
member of a union. In fact, most Americans are not union members.
In fact, the top paying jobs in the U.S. are non-union. So I think
your point is countered.

Robert, you rascal ! I love your simplistic answers. Lets take a
look at things that didnt exist before organized labor; Child labor
laws, healt care benifits, 40 Hour work weeks, severance, paid
vacation, benifits packages, retirement, DC plans,overtime and the
list goes on................ If you had a great career with any of
these benies you can thank organized labor
FB

You are assuming that these "benies" exist because of organized
labor.

Question: what laws would continue to exist if unions went away
and what laws would go away?

And which would have evolved naturally with increased productivity and
increased expertise in management (that had been going on for a couple
hundred years). That's out of Baum's mental grasp, unfortunately.



Bwawhahwhahwhahwhahwhhawhhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwh ahwhahwhahhwhahwhah!



Bertie

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Oh yea, your a controller!

Yes, but that's irrelevant.


Its relevant in that the President of the United State of America
authorized the strike to be broken. That is not typically an option
for employers. Certainly not a typical situation.


The President did no such thing.