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#1
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a
new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one. hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? really. dan |
#2
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
houstondan writes:
gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. GPS is reliable for this type of issue, even without WAAS. Just don't rely on it to determine your altitude. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#3
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
what part of "pilots only" do you not understand? you have your thread
and your opinion has been heard. now go away. many real pilots will not participate if you're in the thread and i'm really trying to talk to them. dan Mxsmanic wrote: houstondan writes: gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. GPS is reliable for this type of issue, even without WAAS. Just don't rely on it to determine your altitude. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#4
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
Why is there only 10 minutes of fuel on board? |
#5
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
"houstondan" wrote in message oups.com... rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one. hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? dan The engineers answer - it depends.answer below assumes I am using my little hand held gps with not altitude info. First I would look at my altimeter If the gps tells me where i am , I would look at the chart I am carrying and find out what the terrain is like and minimum safe altitude. I would descend to that altitude and hope to get out of the soup. at the same time I would be heading in the direction of the best possible landing area ( using rate 1 turn if required). I would also be flying at the precautionary speed wtih 20 degrees of flaps ( in my warrior). If I had ample fuel my answer would be very different. I would most probably try to climb above it and look for a hole. I would also be using whatever assistance I could get on the radio from ATC , other aircraft etc to establish what the cloud situation is. But with limited fuel , I just want to get down with some power to play with. terry |
#6
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
houstondan writes:
what part of "pilots only" do you not understand? I understand it, but you are not the master of this newsgroup, and if it pleases me to reply, I will. many real pilots will not participate if you're in the thread and i'm really trying to talk to them. Any real pilot who refuses to participate solely because of my participation is not only a pilot but also a petulant little boy, and since that would not bode well for the quality of his replies, it may be just as well if he abstains. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#7
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
houstondan wrote:
rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one. hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? really. dan Reduce power to best endurance, call ATC, explain your predicament, declare an emergency and request vectors to the nearest airport and prepare for a crash landing on the way. If you are extremely lucky you will make it to the airport and only have the FAA to deal with. If you are very lucky, your engine will quit over friendly terrain and you will land in an open field with no injuries except damage to the airplane. If you are somewhat lucky you will crash into trees but will survive with injuries. If you are unlucky, you will not make it out alive. |
#8
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
houstondan wrote:
hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? Neither GPS or altimeter since this would be one of the least concerns in saving your bacon. You already don't know your "exact" AGL from your landing point, so other then an approximation from your GPS, first order of priority is to keep the shiny side up. Attitude indicator (Aviate or fly the plane) Some people may say best glide speed, but this really depends on what you think you will come into after breaking out. If the best glide speed takes you into mountains, then that may not the best thing to do. (navigate) If able, declare emergency 121.5 or ATC if already in contact (communicate) Any prayer you can come up with for a good outcome since more then likely spatial disorientation will be a major player since you said you were VFR only. After breaking out of the clouds (assuming low ceilings), emergency checklist, including opening cabin door before landing. If high ceilings, you have a little more time to select your emergency landing site, set up for landing, slowest speed possible, emergency check list for landing. Your scenario really has too many variables that were not defined to really nail down procedures since winds / clouds and human physiology really comes into play so the above are generalizations that I would do if I was in the scenario described. Allen |
#9
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
Dan: First and foremost I would fess up and declare an emergency. A declaration of "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" on Guard Frequency coupled with a 7700 Squawk will get EVERYONE'S attention immediately. Stick with this for a few minutes trying to establish contact. DO NOT change frequencies, make the world come to you. If the autopilot is functioning continue to let it do the flying. After establishing contact with ATC let them bring Flight service into the mix and try to determine bases via PIREPS and forecasts. Again, don't get into changing frequencies, let everyone else come to you. Once you look down and start fiddling with stuff you run the risk of vertigo and that can ruin your day. Assuming there is room under the overcast (Confirmed via Flight Watch / Center / Etc...,) reduce power and let the autopilot continue flying in the descent until you break out underneath. Then just find a smooth spot. Assuming you are in an area without radar coverage I would still stay with the above plan. The high altitude traffic will be able to hear you over a very large footprint and center could triangulate your location accurately enough for a rough report of bases. The high altitude guys will also have onboard capabilities relative to base reports / forecasts. If your autopilot is chugging along you could also relay a position report to center via a high altitude contact. Now lets assume that it's truly a low day with 200 OC and you couldn't contact center. I would do everything the same while enlisting the help from the high altitude guys to find the smoothest spot for landing and also make sure that support would be immediately dispatched. Relative to smooth spots my first thought would be to try for a body of water strait ahead. If the autopilot could do the turn I would go as far as a standard rate turning descent until you break out underneath while over water (no fear of hitting obstructions). If your autopilot is a wing leveler I wouldn't think the circling descent would be worth the risk. If the whole area is relatively inhospitable I would try to get as close to civilization as possible to make the rescue easier. In summary I think the emergency declaration on Guard is key; it brings a very large area of aviation to your aid immediately. Even if you couldn't get Center I would guess a 50 - 100 mile radius for the high altitude population. Just remember, forget the Ego and fess-up. Brett "houstondan" wrote in message oups.com... rather than hijack a perfectly good arcane science thread; i'll start a new one 'cause the core question is a darn good one. hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? really. dan |
#10
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pilots only, please - gps or altimeter?
"houstondan" wrote:
hypothetical situation: you're a blue sky vfr flyer and somehow you wind up in the soup - after having gone 2 hours and 200 miles from your take-off point , you wake up from a nice little nap and discover you're inside the milk bottle. gps(not waas) says nearest airport of any kind is 30 minutes away and gas-totalizer says the fan stops in 10 minutes. not mountainous but you ain't in kansas either todo...whatcha gunna do?? Cut power and deploy the ballistic parachute. ;-) |
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