IFR in a vintage 172 - vacuum system

Well, at long last I've decided to go for my instrument rating. I'm having
a ball (aside from yesterday's disastrous simulator session), but now I'm
facing the dilemma that every instrument student has to deal with: where to
find an IFR-capable aircraft. My 1961-vintage 172B's panel has a six-pack,
a KY-97A, a GTR-225, and an ancient 300-series ARC ADF. Good solid comms,
but not much else. That's nothing a boatload of money can't fix, except
for one thing: my vacuum gyros are powered by venturis. (It's great fun
when a young hotshot instructor from the flying school next door wanders
over, points to the venturis, and says, "What's that?")

What makes it difficult is that my Continental O-300C (150 SMOH and
purring like a kitten) has no option for a vacuum pump. The O-300D
was the first model that provided a mounting pad on the rear case.

All my buddies walk me through Trade-A-Plane, etc., pointing out nice
Cherokee 180s decked out with a 430W and a KX-155. That's well and
good, but the old girl has been in the family for over 40 years.
Heck, she _is_ family - my wife is doing her PPL in her right now.

So... is there any way to retrofit a vacuum system in my plane?
Adding a heated pitot and alternate static are trivial, and the
radios, as I mentioned above, are just a matter of money. But I
don't think it would be a good idea to take off into the soup when
my gyros aren't spun up until several minutes into the flight.
And conditions that would ice up a carburetor are bound to be
at least as bad for venturis - and they have no equivalent of
carburetor heat.

Common wisdom says get another airplane. But there's the
sentimental factor here. Any ideas?

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
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On 1/22/2017 11:17 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Well, at long last I've decided to go for my instrument rating. I'm having
a ball (aside from yesterday's disastrous simulator session), but now I'm
facing the dilemma that every instrument student has to deal with: where to
find an IFR-capable aircraft. My 1961-vintage 172B's panel has a six-pack,
a KY-97A, a GTR-225, and an ancient 300-series ARC ADF. Good solid comms,
but not much else. That's nothing a boatload of money can't fix, except
for one thing: my vacuum gyros are powered by venturis. (It's great fun
when a young hotshot instructor from the flying school next door wanders
over, points to the venturis, and says, "What's that?")

What makes it difficult is that my Continental O-300C (150 SMOH and
purring like a kitten) has no option for a vacuum pump. The O-300D
was the first model that provided a mounting pad on the rear case.

All my buddies walk me through Trade-A-Plane, etc., pointing out nice
Cherokee 180s decked out with a 430W and a KX-155. That's well and
good, but the old girl has been in the family for over 40 years.
Heck, she _is_ family - my wife is doing her PPL in her right now.

So... is there any way to retrofit a vacuum system in my plane?
Adding a heated pitot and alternate static are trivial, and the
radios, as I mentioned above, are just a matter of money. But I
don't think it would be a good idea to take off into the soup when
my gyros aren't spun up until several minutes into the flight.
And conditions that would ice up a carburetor are bound to be
at least as bad for venturis - and they have no equivalent of
carburetor heat.

Common wisdom says get another airplane. But there's the
sentimental factor here. Any ideas?

Have you considered a Garmin G5 or similar EFIS and eBaying the
mechanical gyros?

On 2017-01-23, Curt Johnson wrote:

On 1/22/2017 11:17 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

replacing venturis

Have you considered a Garmin G5 or similar EFIS and eBaying the
mechanical gyros?

Actually, the Dynon D10 sounds like an interesting option,
especially now that an STC is available. It'd fit quite nicely
in the panel in place of the existing attitude indicator, which
is probably due for replacement anyway. (I recently replaced the
heading indicator, which finally packed it in after 30 years of
faithful service, and the AI is the same age.) Since the D10 has
its own pitot tube - which, as a bonus, contains an angle-of-attack
probe - that'd handle the pitot replacement I'd need anyway, as
long as it's heated. And the D10 would give me heading indications
while the heading indicator is spinning up.

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
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Check this out! It's a backup vaccum system that used vaccum from the engines intake manifold. Not the bee's knees but better than nothing or a $2K plus electrically driven vacuum pump...

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...dby_vacsys.php

Sorry if my reply is too dated.

Mike

On Sunday, January 22, 2017 at 2:14:32 PM UTC-5, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Well, at long last I've decided to go for my instrument rating. I'm having
a ball (aside from yesterday's disastrous simulator session), but now I'm
facing the dilemma that every instrument student has to deal with: where to
find an IFR-capable aircraft. My 1961-vintage 172B's panel has a six-pack,
a KY-97A, a GTR-225, and an ancient 300-series ARC ADF. Good solid comms,
but not much else. That's nothing a boatload of money can't fix, except
for one thing: my vacuum gyros are powered by venturis. (It's great fun
when a young hotshot instructor from the flying school next door wanders
over, points to the venturis, and says, "What's that?")

What makes it difficult is that my Continental O-300C (150 SMOH and
purring like a kitten) has no option for a vacuum pump. The O-300D
was the first model that provided a mounting pad on the rear case.

All my buddies walk me through Trade-A-Plane, etc., pointing out nice
Cherokee 180s decked out with a 430W and a KX-155. That's well and
good, but the old girl has been in the family for over 40 years.
Heck, she _is_ family - my wife is doing her PPL in her right now.

So... is there any way to retrofit a vacuum system in my plane?
Adding a heated pitot and alternate static are trivial, and the
radios, as I mentioned above, are just a matter of money. But I
don't think it would be a good idea to take off into the soup when
my gyros aren't spun up until several minutes into the flight.
And conditions that would ice up a carburetor are bound to be
at least as bad for venturis - and they have no equivalent of
carburetor heat.

Common wisdom says get another airplane. But there's the
sentimental factor here. Any ideas?

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

here's another that is even a lower cost.

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/pf-svs-v.html

Mike

On 2017-02-26, wrote:

Check this out! It's a backup vaccum system that used vaccum from the
engines intake manifold. Not the bee's knees but better than nothing
or a $2K plus electrically driven vacuum pump...

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...dby_vacsys.php

Sorry if my reply is too dated.

Definitely an option. I'll talk it up with the locals and get some
more opinions. Still, I'm kind of tempted by the Garmin G5 / Dynon
D10 option, which doesn't cost a whole lot more - especially when
you compare it with the other stuff I need (replace existing comm
radios with something like a 430W / KX155 combo).

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

On Sunday, January 22, 2017 at 12:14:32 PM UTC-7, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Well, at long last I've decided to go for my instrument rating. I'm having
a ball (aside from yesterday's disastrous simulator session), but now I'm
facing the dilemma that every instrument student has to deal with: where to
find an IFR-capable aircraft. My 1961-vintage 172B's panel has a six-pack,
a KY-97A, a GTR-225, and an ancient 300-series ARC ADF. Good solid comms,
but not much else. That's nothing a boatload of money can't fix, except
for one thing: my vacuum gyros are powered by venturis. (It's great fun
when a young hotshot instructor from the flying school next door wanders
over, points to the venturis, and says, "What's that?")

What makes it difficult is that my Continental O-300C (150 SMOH and
purring like a kitten) has no option for a vacuum pump. The O-300D
was the first model that provided a mounting pad on the rear case.

All my buddies walk me through Trade-A-Plane, etc., pointing out nice
Cherokee 180s decked out with a 430W and a KX-155. That's well and
good, but the old girl has been in the family for over 40 years.
Heck, she _is_ family - my wife is doing her PPL in her right now.

So... is there any way to retrofit a vacuum system in my plane?
Adding a heated pitot and alternate static are trivial, and the
radios, as I mentioned above, are just a matter of money. But I
don't think it would be a good idea to take off into the soup when
my gyros aren't spun up until several minutes into the flight.
And conditions that would ice up a carburetor are bound to be
at least as bad for venturis - and they have no equivalent of
carburetor heat.

Common wisdom says get another airplane. But there's the
sentimental factor here. Any ideas?

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

Nothing wrong with using the venturi vac system unless you get into ice. BH

On 2017-04-23, BH wrote:

Nothing wrong with using the venturi vac system unless you get into ice. BH

Not that I plan on getting anywhere near ice. :-) And since the departure
procedure for my home field specifies a visual climb to 800 feet, the gyros
would have time to spin up anyway. Mind you, if I want to put in that
Garmin 430W, I might barely feel the extra cost of a G5 or two...

--
/~\ lid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!