Pop out floats on a 206BIII

We operate floats on all our Jetrangers and our 407. For a 206BIII, I think
the weight difference compared to high skids is about 75lbs. As for an
effect on airspeed I'm not so sure because I'm on the maintenance side of
the company. Yet I figure 5-10 knots. If you want some precise numbers I can
check for you on Tuesday.

mike

"Bart" wrote in message
...
Anybody know how much airspeed is really affected by popout floats on a
Jet Ranger, and what the weight of them is?

Thanks in advance,

Bart

We operate floats on all our Jetrangers and our 407. For a 206BIII, I think
the weight difference compared to high skids is about 75lbs. As for an
effect on airspeed I'm not so sure because I'm on the maintenance side of
the company. Yet I figure 5-10 knots. If you want some precise numbers I can
check for you on Tuesday.

mike

Question: I've heard these will float the helicopter, just not necessarily
right side up! :-o

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these floats?
Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but will it be
reasonably stable on calm water?

Just curious,
Fly Safe,
Steve R.

The floats are supposed to keep the machine upright in seas up to 2
feet. According to what I've heard they may or may not keep the machine
afloat for very long. The important thing is that they allow a much less
scary and more orderly egress compared to the murky, oxygen deprived,
upside down one you're assured to have without them.

Bart

Rhodesst wrote:
We operate floats on all our Jetrangers and our 407. For a 206BIII, I think
the weight difference compared to high skids is about 75lbs. As for an
effect on airspeed I'm not so sure because I'm on the maintenance side of
the company. Yet I figure 5-10 knots. If you want some precise numbers I can
check for you on Tuesday.

mike


Question: I've heard these will float the helicopter, just not necessarily
right side up! :-o

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these floats?
Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but will it be
reasonably stable on calm water?

Just curious,
Fly Safe,
Steve R.

(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these
floats? Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but
will it be reasonably stable on calm water?

On calm water, they'll usually keep it up. The problem is that the CG is
very high, & the helicopter will roll upside down very easily, especially
if the wind & seas get up. Trying to tow the the helicopter will almost
always result in it turning turtle & tearing itself apart.

The floats do slow it down, especially the modern 6-pack floats. The older
pan floats didn't slow it down very much, but in a BIII 100 kts is about
all you can expect with floats, especially with a load. Light, you might
get 110, but then again you might not. I used to plan on 100 & that was
usually pretty accurate.

--
Regards,

Stan

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

How stable is the helicopter while it's sitting in the water on these
floats? Obviously, rough seas will pretty much doom the aircraft but
will it be reasonably stable on calm water?

On calm water, they'll usually keep it up. The problem is that the CG is
very high, & the helicopter will roll upside down very easily, especially
if the wind & seas get up. Trying to tow the the helicopter will almost
always result in it turning turtle & tearing itself apart.

The floats do slow it down, especially the modern 6-pack floats. The
older
pan floats didn't slow it down very much, but in a BIII 100 kts is about
all you can expect with floats, especially with a load. Light, you might
get 110, but then again you might not. I used to plan on 100 & that was
usually pretty accurate.

--
Regards,

Stan

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

Hi Mike,

I'd be interested in see the pictures if you don't mind sending them.

Thanks!
Steve R.

In article , Rhodesst
wrote:

Yes, the cruise on our machine is about 100 knots.
I have some pictures of a 206 ditched in San Francisco and the floats held
it upright. let me know if you'd like to see them.

mike

Hi Mike,

I'd be interested in see the pictures if you don't mind sending them.

Thanks!
Steve R.

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.
Jeremiah Cohick, who was one of the passengers in the helicopter, is
one of the people that was featured in Apple Computer's Switch
campaign. The first link has a few wide-angle pictures of the
helicopter sitting in the bay, and the second is Jeremiah's account of
what happened. There used to be some much better pictures on the web,
but I can't find them right now.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/01/14.7.shtml
http://www.jeremiahlee.com/life/2003-Jan.html
Scroll down to 1/10/2003

Steve

This might be the one Mike was referring to... In January 2003, a
heilcopter on a tour in San Francisco was forced to ditch into the bay.
Jeremiah Cohick, who was one of the passengers in the helicopter, is
one of the people that was featured in Apple Computer's Switch
campaign. The first link has a few wide-angle pictures of the
helicopter sitting in the bay, and the second is Jeremiah's account of
what happened. There used to be some much better pictures on the web,
but I can't find them right now.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/01/14.7.shtml


Steve

Mike was kind enought we send me a couple of jpegs from the story in the link
above. Thanks, Mike!

The helicopter sits much lower in the water, relative to the floats, than I
would have thought. While the water conditions aren't that rough compared to
what San Fransisco Bay is capable of, there is some wave action and the Jet
Ranger looks like it's sitting there just fine.

I noted the reporter writing the article refered to the incident as a "crash."
All I can say is, if that's a crash, then any landing a helicopter makes also
qualifies as a crash. Looks to me like the pilot did a first class job
handling the emergency.

The "vast" majority of emergency autorotations (I'm assuming that's what this
was?) that I've seen on the news over the past 20 years ended in a roll over,
seperation of the tail boom, or some other significant damage to the aircraft
whether there were any injuries or not. This Jet Ranger looks to be completely
intact. Cudo's to the pilot!

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

(Rhodesst) wrote in
:

The helicopter sits much lower in the water, relative to the floats,
than I would have thought. While the water conditions aren't that
rough compared to what San Fransisco Bay is capable of, there is some
wave action and the Jet Ranger looks like it's sitting there just
fine.

The floats are on top of the skids, & inflate up to the doors, so it sits
lower than it does on the ground. This is essential, since the CG is still
pretty high, & the helicopter is rather unstable in the water. It rolls
fairly easily.

The "vast" majority of emergency autorotations (I'm assuming that's
what this was?) that I've seen on the news over the past 20 years
ended in a roll over, seperation of the tail boom, or some other
significant damage to the aircraft whether there were any injuries or
not. This Jet Ranger looks to be completely intact. Cudo's to the
pilot!

Soft autos to the water are easier than to the ground. Properly done,
during an auto to the water it's difficult to feel when you touch down.
There may be a big splash, but you don't feel the impact that much, because
the floats absorb the impact more slowly, and the water parts as you go in.
I've done innumerable practice autos to the water on fixed floats, & it's a
lot of fun, much easier to do than on skids on concrete. If the seas are
up, though, you'd better get out, because the thing will turn turtle in a
heartbeat. We've had lots of cases of engine failure in which the pilot
put the helicopter in the water with no damage at all, but the helicopter
was almost destroyed during the salvage attempt.

--
Regards,

Stan

Interesting thread.

I've got a few helicopter pics showing the machines on these pop out
floats and wondered a few times what would happend if they were needed.

My curious question is how come operators don't use the old permanent
floats. You know, the ones that looked like cigar tubes, nice and
plump, etc.

I presume it would have to do with performance, speed, etc.

Would those types of floats be safer compared to the pop outs or
would still be iffy on roughish water.