Osprey tested in air, at sea, but not in vortex ring state.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...cnsosprey.html
"They decided not to finish a second phase of vortex ring state testing."

-HJC

That (your subject line claim) is not what it says. You are mistaking the
questionable claim from a former OT&E guru as meaning that the aircraft was
not tested in vortex ring state conditions, which just ain't the case.

"...has proven its ability to function safely in potentially deadly rapid
descent conditions, the government's top test pilot said...Gross said they
have completed the tests necessary to document the tilt-rotor's response to
the dangerous vortex ring state condition that rotary wing aircraft
encounter when descending too quickly at low airspeed...Gross and other
members of the Osprey test team have said the tilt-rotor encounters vortex
ring state at much higher rates of descent than helicopters and recovers
better because it can move the rotors forward to quickly gain airspeed..."We
believe we have explored this enough," Gross said.

If you are going to try to summarize the gist of the article in your header,
at least get it right.

Brooks


"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
om...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...cnsosprey.html
"They decided not to finish a second phase of vortex ring state testing."

-HJC

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message t...
That (your subject line claim) is not what it says. You are mistaking the
questionable claim from a former OT&E guru as meaning that the aircraft was
not tested in vortex ring state conditions, which just ain't the case.

I don't see any mention that they ever actually went into full vortex
ring state.

What they need to do is send an unmanned Osprey up to say 10k feet,
put it into VRS and have it automatically recover until the software
is solid.

Then you don't have to worry about the pilot reacting in time, the
aircraft will rotate the engines forward and scoot out of trouble on
it's own.

-HJC

In article ,
(Henry J. Cobb) wrote:

I don't see any mention that they ever actually went into full vortex
ring state.

What they need to do is send an unmanned Osprey up to say 10k feet,
put it into VRS and have it automatically recover until the software
is solid.

Then you don't have to worry about the pilot reacting in time, the
aircraft will rotate the engines forward and scoot out of trouble on
it's own.

....and it will be the only rotary wing aircraft on the planet with the
capability to get out of VRS on its own...

....except for the occasional tendency to suddenly fly straight forward
and into whatver obstacles are in front of it...

Of course, you really have to drop the Osprey down fast, under very
specific conditions, to get into VRS to begin with, and the easy way to
not get into it is to not drop the thing to the ground quite as fast.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Henry J. Cobb" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...
That (your subject line claim) is not what it says. You are mistaking
the
questionable claim from a former OT&E guru as meaning that the aircraft
was
not tested in vortex ring state conditions, which just ain't the case.

I don't see any mention that they ever actually went into full vortex
ring state.

You should reread your article, then.


What they need to do is send an unmanned Osprey up to say 10k feet,
put it into VRS and have it automatically recover until the software
is solid.

Then you don't have to worry about the pilot reacting in time, the
aircraft will rotate the engines forward and scoot out of trouble on
it's own.

Why? Other (conventional) rotary aircraft currently within operating
inventopries are susceptable to VRS and manage to handle it by knowing the
limits--why do you think the V-22 should somehow be different? Illogical.

Brooks


-HJC

In article ,
Hobo wrote:

In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" wrote:

Why? Other (conventional) rotary aircraft currently within operating
inventopries are susceptable to VRS and manage to handle it by knowing the
limits--why do you think the V-22 should somehow be different? Illogical.

It's not illogical if the V-22 is so much more susceptible to this that
the frequency of occurence during routine use is far greater than normal
helos.

But that's the thing.

It's not. It's just that they were trying something *very* far off
normal flight regimes, and it bit them.

Most copters damn near have to have their rotors fall off to get that
sort of sink rate.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Hobo" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" wrote:

Why? Other (conventional) rotary aircraft currently within operating
inventopries are susceptable to VRS and manage to handle it by knowing
the
limits--why do you think the V-22 should somehow be different?
Illogical.

Brooks

It's not illogical if the V-22 is so much more susceptible to this that
the frequency of occurence during routine use is far greater than normal
helos.

But apparently it is not "so much more susceptable" to it.

Brooks

In article ,
Hobo wrote:

That Arndt guy won't even claim the Germans did it first.

Actually, he did that a couple of weeks ago.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Hobo" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kevin Brooks" wrote:


But apparently it is not "so much more susceptable" to it.

Brooks

What I have heard is that using smaller than normal rotors makes it more
susceptible than normal. Regardless, it has already killed over 20
people and no US service other than the Marines wants it

Not true. The USAF is still anxious to get the Osprey into its special
operations force, and we have had recent reports of interest from the
National Guard Bureau in obtaining Ospreys for the homeland defense role. A
very brief review of available web resources via Google will verify that
your statement is patently false.

and no foreign
country will take it even as a gift

None have been offered.

and there is zero commercial
interest in the technology.

Really? Last I heard the joint Agusta Bell AB 609 civil spinoff had gained
some seventy advance orders, and made its maiden flight this past March. So
far you are exhibiting a very low batting average in terms of accuracy of
your statements regarding this program.

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co...r_0307001.html

That Arndt guy won't even claim the Germans
did it first.

Have you been sleeping of late? He recently actually did exactly that.
Another less than accurate statement you have left with us...

Brooks

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message et...
Why? Other (conventional) rotary aircraft currently within operating
inventopries are susceptable to VRS and manage to handle it by knowing the
limits--why do you think the V-22 should somehow be different? Illogical.

http://198.65.138.161/military/syste...t/v-22-vrs.htm
"This asymmetrical VRS phenomenon, which is unique to side-by-side
rotor configurations, will have the initial resultant effect of
inducing a large rolling moment in the yaw direction."

That's what's different about it.

-HJC