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#21
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David Bromage wrote:
JD wrote: I personally like Brash's suggestion of the F-15s. Lease them of the Yanks with a clause that states if the JSF is late, we keep the F-15s for free until the JSF turns up. Fat chance but. Expensive purchase of munitions to begin with, unless what we've got in store are compatible? What can our F-111s carry that an F-15E can't? A former -111 jock (yet another ex-jock who loves flying trikes) said he used to fly low level at 510 kts to 1.1 mach at 100 ft AGL hand flying or 200 feet on the auto terrain following system in the weather and 400 feet AGL at night in the weather. He said the F-15E can't go near as fast, near as far, or carry the Vark's payload. He said the ride was smoother too, but admits the F-15E can easily out-turn the F-111. -Mike Marron |
#22
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I was referring to the A-400M which I understood to be close to
deployment and with substantial orders in Europe. Anyone have any accurate information on this? As for the Labor Party - with regard to defence they are a joke and should never be taken seriously. Like it or lump it only a Coalition Government will give defence a reasonable deal. Just how reasonable is the argument. The problem with our having the F-111 is we now have people arguing that we shouldn't lose such a great capability. It's a double-edged sword. The F-111 has served us well, but can we really justify its cost in this day and age? The Army has been run down, and the $300 million we spend on the Pigs would fund the raising of two extra infantry battalions. We need extra capability for air defence - the F/A-18s with adequate air refuelling or basing sufficiently close to the action (at our bare bases in the north, or Tindal) have strike capabilities, and it is much cheaper to add new weapons such as HARM to their arsenal - but we need more aircraft for air superiority, to take on SU-27s and win. That's why I suggest replacing the F-111s with either the F/A-18E or surplus ex-USN or USMC F/A-18s. We need to be able to put more aircraft in the air at once. The F-111 force cannot put that many planes over a target even allowing for full serviciability - which seems to be rare. With four full squadrons of fighters, additional AAR aircraft and the AWACS that will enter service in a few years we would be able to repel attacks against likely threats from our near neighbours. Eventually those fighters will be the stealthy F-35. But until that arrives, and it won't be available in 2012 - let's not kid ourselves, we need to maintain all-round air defence capabilities by retiring the F-111 and acquiring as a temporary measure additional fighters. The F-111 is not a fighter. And we cannot afford a single role bomber in this day and age and with our defence budget. |
#23
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"John Duncan" wrote in message ... Drewe Manton wrote: Pooh Bear waxed lyrical : Why shouldn't a 60's design a/c be scrapped ? Because it's still in the premier league of strike aircraft and brings massive capability to a small force. I suppose the USAF better get on with scrapping all those B-52's and KC-135's and E-3's and E-8's and C- 130's eh? After all, they are *fifties* designs! Ahh.. but they did have enough sense to get rid of their F-111's - even found some sucker to buy 15 old ones they had laying around the desert Only because the arms reduction treaties negotiated with the Soviets specifically required them to. Keith |
#24
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"David Bromage" wrote in message
... JD wrote: I personally like Brash's suggestion of the F-15s. Lease them of the Yanks with a clause that states if the JSF is late, we keep the F-15s for free until the JSF turns up. Fat chance but. Expensive purchase of munitions to begin with, unless what we've got in store are compatible? What can our F-111s carry that an F-15E can't? I think the main point is how far it can carry it. The F-15E/K has somewhat better self-defence ability however (especially on egress) -- Errol Cavit | to email, my middle initial is G | von Sanders (8/8/15): "What can be done to save the situation?" Kemal: "We must place all the commands under one commander." "Is there no alternative?" "No. No alternative. You must place all the forces under my command." "But surely there are too many." "Too few" replied Kemal and hung up. |
#25
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Walt, your statement about lack of air bases in far north Oz leads to ask,
have you never heard of RAAF Bases Learmonth, Curtin, Tindal, and Scherger? -- De Oppresso Liber. "Walt BJ" wrote in message om... A couple points need to be made here to expound on staemenst in previous messages. First, relating to age. The 111 is a 60's design. But aircraft performance is now at the upper flattening arc of the familiar S-curve where lots of money will gain you greatly proportionate less performance. just what modern aircraft can match the 11, dollar for dollar, at low-level long range penetration at night or all-weather? And give you supersonic over-the target performance? Or long range standoff supersonic loft of guided weapons? The Hornet is very short-legged compared to the 111. As to the need for an effective defence, a lot of OZ's earning do now and will increasingly come from the Timor Sea oil and gas fields. They are an attractive target for any covetous regime, especially one in economic trouble that 'boasts' an oligarchic government. (Test: name one nearby.)(Hint: there's two, with a third some ways away but quite expansionist in character.) And the 111 force is in being now. Replacing one aircraft type with a newer and questionably better one is not cheap. Have I ever flown the Vark? No. Did I ever want to? No. Why not? I like the air to air fighter mission a lot more than strategic strike. Does it do its job better than one hell of a lot of other aircraft? Yes. What could replace it? Something with the same range and blind-bombing capability. BTW I'd a lot rather re-engine the Vark and heat-armor the front for high altitude supersonic cruise than load up on Hornets. Note that OZ lacks any effective in-flight refueling capability and also lacks any really capable chain of peripheral air bases from Perth northabout to T'ville. Looks like the best thing to do is declare "no war will be fought for ten years", cross your fingers and let everything go to pot. Alice Springs can be OZ's 'boneyard' and y'all can just hope you get more lead-time than did England in the late thirties . . . Lots of luck - GI! Cheers - I think. Walt BJ |
#26
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"Keith Willshaw" waxed lyrical
: Only because the arms reduction treaties negotiated with the Soviets specifically required them to. From which you can draw your own conclusions! -- -------- Regards Drewe Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity |
#27
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John Duncan waxed lyrical news:3F307E50.9060603
@ausi.com: In the unrealistic above event how would ancient F-111s perform ? Badly. Please provide evidence that the F-111 would fare badly in such a scenario. It's history, raw performance, avionics and PGM ability would suggest it would perform rathger better than "badly". First flew in hwta? 1964? NEarly forty years on there are still only a handful of types that can match or exceed it for specific capability. -- -------- Regards Drewe Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity |
#28
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You're overlooking a couple of really important points.........
"Defender in Tas" wrote in message m... The problem with our having the F-111 is we now have people arguing that we shouldn't lose such a great capability. It's a double-edged sword. The F-111 has served us well, but can we really justify its cost in this day and age? The Army has been run down, and the $300 million we spend on the Pigs would fund the raising of two extra infantry battalions. Except Infantry Battalions are kind of manpower-intensive. The ADF is having a hard enough time filling existing vacancies without creating 1200-1800 more overnight. We need extra capability for air defence - the F/A-18s with adequate air refuelling or basing sufficiently close to the action (at our bare bases in the north, or Tindal) have strike capabilities, and it is much cheaper to add new weapons such as HARM to their arsenal - but we need more aircraft for air superiority, to take on SU-27s and win. That's why I suggest replacing the F-111s with either the F/A-18E or surplus ex-USN or USMC F/A-18s. We need to be able to put more aircraft in the air at once. The F-111 force cannot put that many planes over a target even allowing for full serviciability - which seems to be rare. A lack of aircrew doesn't help much either. Fast jet-capable crew are few and far between, and you want to create more airframes with no-one to fly them? With four full squadrons of fighters, additional AAR aircraft and the AWACS that will enter service in a few years we would be able to repel attacks against likely threats from our near neighbours. Wouldn't it be better to destroy those enemy fighters where they are most vulnerable.......... on the ground? Pigs are better at that than Bugs. Eventually those fighters will be the stealthy F-35. But until that arrives, and it won't be available in 2012 - let's not kid ourselves, we need to maintain all-round air defence capabilities by retiring the F-111 and acquiring as a temporary measure additional fighters. If you have to rely on air *defence*, you'll lose the war. The F-111 is not a fighter. No ****? And we cannot afford a single role bomber in this day and age and with our defence budget. Have you been reading the Swiss manual of warfare? -- De Oppresso Liber. |
#29
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"JD" wrote in message
om... (Defender in Tas) wrote in message . com... [...] I personally like Brash's suggestion of the F-15s. Lease them of the Yanks with a clause that states if the JSF is late, we keep the F-15s for free until the JSF turns up. Fat chance but. Expensive purchase of munitions to begin with, unless what we've got in store are compatible? I'm no expert on air weapons, but I'm fairly sure that since every thing is digitised these days its only a matter of software changes to use different ordnance. Our current stocks of F111 weapons are most probably compatible with the F15E (or K). -- De Oppresso Liber. |
#30
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"David Bromage" wrote in message
... JD wrote: I personally like Brash's suggestion of the F-15s. Lease them of the Yanks with a clause that states if the JSF is late, we keep the F-15s for free until the JSF turns up. Fat chance but. Expensive purchase of munitions to begin with, unless what we've got in store are compatible? What can our F-111s carry that an F-15E can't? Cheers David At a guess........... Harpoons. -- De Oppresso Liber. |
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