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Logging instrument approaches



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 03, 10:50 PM
Slav Inger
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Default Logging instrument approaches

It's been awhile since I flew VFR, and having taken a cursory look
through Part 61 I didn't see anything to the contrary, so I'm going to
throw this out and see what you guys think. It's my understanding that
I can take a VFR-only airplane on a local VFR trip with a PP-rated
safety pilot on board, wear foggles, shoot simulated instrument
approaches and log those approaches as instrument approaches AND log the
entire time as PIC. Correct or incorrect?

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP
  #2  
Old July 15th 03, 03:35 AM
JimC
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According to the instructors and DE's that I know, that is a correct
statement. Of course the plane would have to be equipped for the approaches
that you're doing. Hard to log an ILS approach if the plane doesn't have a
GS.

JimC

"Slav Inger" wrote in message
...
It's been awhile since I flew VFR, and having taken a cursory look
through Part 61 I didn't see anything to the contrary, so I'm going to
throw this out and see what you guys think. It's my understanding that
I can take a VFR-only airplane on a local VFR trip with a PP-rated
safety pilot on board, wear foggles, shoot simulated instrument
approaches and log those approaches as instrument approaches AND log the
entire time as PIC. Correct or incorrect?

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP




  #3  
Old July 15th 03, 07:56 AM
Justin Maas
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Hard to log an ILS approach if the plane doesn't have a GS.

Nonsense. I just have the safety pilot point one of his fingers
horizontally on one hand and vertically on the other. Then, while crossing
the fingers and putting them in view of the PIC (with a V.L.D. on, of
course), the safety pilot can look outside and estimate the glideslope.
It's also critical that the S.P. have a good voice range, as emulation of
the marker beacons can be difficult otherwise. It should be noted that beef
jerky sticks can substitute fingers, but equipment function is more likely
if pilot hunger is moderate.

If you want to simulate intercepting a GS too high and receiving an
incorrect angle, have the S.P. consume any alcoholic beverage(s) and/or nail
polish remover. If unwilling, tell him/her that he needs to identify the
100LL with a good sniff, as "fuel gnomes" have been known to steal gas and
replace it with blue water. This should result in faulty "instrumentation."

Sorry, it's late...had to do it...

Justin


  #4  
Old July 15th 03, 12:44 PM
Slav Inger
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Default

JimC wrote:

According to the instructors and DE's that I know, that is a correct
statement. Of course the plane would have to be equipped for the approaches
that you're doing. Hard to log an ILS approach if the plane doesn't have a
GS.


That goes without saying, I was just making sure I was alright on
legalities.

And Justin, keep taking those pills man.

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP
  #5  
Old July 15th 03, 02:57 PM
Teacherjh
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Nonsense. I just have the safety pilot point one of his fingers
horizontally on one hand and vertically on the other. Then, while crossing
the fingers and putting them in view of the PIC (with a V.L.D. on, of
course), the safety pilot can look outside and estimate the glideslope.
It's also critical that the S.P. have a good voice range, as emulation of
the marker beacons can be difficult otherwise. It should be noted that beef
jerky sticks can substitute fingers, but equipment function is more likely
if pilot hunger is moderate.

If you want to simulate intercepting a GS too high and receiving an
incorrect angle, have the S.P. consume any alcoholic beverage(s) and/or nail
polish remover. If unwilling, tell him/her that he needs to identify the
100LL with a good sniff, as "fuel gnomes" have been known to steal gas and
replace it with blue water. This should result in faulty "instrumentation."


I thought that wasn't legal unless you had an FAA approved tuna sandwich.

Jose

(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)
  #6  
Old July 15th 03, 03:01 PM
Ron Natalie
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Default


"Slav Inger" wrote in message ...
It's been awhile since I flew VFR, and having taken a cursory look
through Part 61 I didn't see anything to the contrary, so I'm going to
throw this out and see what you guys think. It's my understanding that
I can take a VFR-only airplane on a local VFR trip with a PP-rated
safety pilot on board, wear foggles, shoot simulated instrument
approaches and log those approaches as instrument approaches AND log the
entire time as PIC. Correct or incorrect?


The only requirement to log instrument time is to fly the aircraft by reference
to instruments in simulated or actual conditions. There is no requirement
for the aircraft (or the pilot) to be rated for IFR (as long as they don't actually
operate under IFR).


  #7  
Old July 15th 03, 03:02 PM
Ron Natalie
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Default


"Justin Maas" wrote in message ...
Hard to log an ILS approach if the plane doesn't have a GS.


Nonsense. I just have the safety pilot point one of his fingers
horizontally on one hand and vertically on the other. Then, while crossing
the fingers and putting them in view of the PIC


You're making it too hard... all he needs to do is simulate the glideslope. Presumably
your NAV radio can track the localizer...


  #8  
Old July 15th 03, 07:56 PM
Slav Inger
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Default

On a similar note (and this one I'm less sure about than my original
question), is there any way the safety pilot can log the time he spends
being the safety pilot? I know my logging requirements as PIC under
simulated instrument conditions (SP's name, etc), but I'm not exactly
sure what the SP himself can log. Thanks.

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP
  #9  
Old July 15th 03, 08:09 PM
Slav Inger
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Default

Slav Inger wrote:

On a similar note (and this one I'm less sure about than my original
question), is there any way the safety pilot can log the time he spends
being the safety pilot? I know my logging requirements as PIC under
simulated instrument conditions (SP's name, etc), but I'm not exactly
sure what the SP himself can log. Thanks.


Oh, almost forgot: I don't think I can split the cost of the flight with
the safety pilot, can I? Since I wanted to go practice instrument
approaches and asked/needed someone to be my safety pilot, the SP is no
longer "just a passenger". Since his presence in the airplane is not
coincidental, I'm assuming that I can't charge him 50% of the cost.

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP
  #10  
Old July 15th 03, 08:28 PM
Ron Natalie
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Default


"Slav Inger" wrote in message ...


WRT "as long as they don't actually operate under IFR", while the
airplane must be rated for IFR in this case, I'd just like to clarify
that it IS legal for a not-yet-rated instrument student to log PIC when
in IMC and on an IFR flight plan when their CFII is sitting next to
them.


That is to day, the PIC doesn't need to be the one flying by insturments (and
logging the instrument time). Doesn't need to be a CFII. Any safety pilot
legal to be the IFR PIC can play that role.



 




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