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Suppose We Really Do Have Only GPS Approaches



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 18th 03, 01:24 AM
Richard Kaplan
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Default Suppose We Really Do Have Only GPS Approaches

Suppose the FAA truly does plan to decommission all navaids except GPS.

How long do you think it would take to design, test, and publish replacement
WAAS GPS approaches to replace every ILS, LOC, or other approach in
existence today which does not meet the criteria for a straight GPS overlay
approach?

As food for thought, one of the advantages of even non-WAAS GPS is supposed
to be the ability to publish approaches to any airport in the U.S. Well,
years after the introduction of GPS my own home airport (KWAY) still does
not have an instrument approach of any type at all; a request is pending,
but I have been told it could be a long wait.

So any guess how long it would take to convert all current approaches to
either GPS overlay or GPS WAAS so that we could decommission all the other
navaids?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com


  #2  
Old July 18th 03, 01:56 AM
Bob Gardner
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Default

As I indicated in a post in the other WAAS thread, there is no apparent
intent to decommission all navaids except GPS through at least 2020.

Bob Gardner

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...
Suppose the FAA truly does plan to decommission all navaids except GPS.

How long do you think it would take to design, test, and publish

replacement
WAAS GPS approaches to replace every ILS, LOC, or other approach in
existence today which does not meet the criteria for a straight GPS

overlay
approach?

As food for thought, one of the advantages of even non-WAAS GPS is

supposed
to be the ability to publish approaches to any airport in the U.S. Well,
years after the introduction of GPS my own home airport (KWAY) still does
not have an instrument approach of any type at all; a request is pending,
but I have been told it could be a long wait.

So any guess how long it would take to convert all current approaches to
either GPS overlay or GPS WAAS so that we could decommission all the other
navaids?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com




  #3  
Old July 18th 03, 02:20 AM
Richard Kaplan
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
et...

As I indicated in a post in the other WAAS thread, there is no apparent
intent to decommission all navaids except GPS through at least 2020.


Well, put into that perspective, consider how accurate predictions in 1986
would have been about the status of the national airspace system today.
This would be sort of like predicting the federal budget or national debt or
the Dow Jones Average in 2020.

What is to say some other new navaid technology won't come up before 2020?

A much bigger worry is probably whether 100LL will be available in 2020.

In other words, all this discussion about GPS as sole nav really is not
worth considering and we should all just go planning for both ground-based
and GPS navigation for the foreseeable future, in fact for many of this
group probably for the rest of their flying lives.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com


  #4  
Old July 18th 03, 02:48 AM
Bob Gardner
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Default

Considering the pace at which the FAA moves, if a new technology was
developed tomorrow, it would be ten to fifteen years before they even began
to study it.

Bob Gardner

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
et...

As I indicated in a post in the other WAAS thread, there is no apparent
intent to decommission all navaids except GPS through at least 2020.


Well, put into that perspective, consider how accurate predictions in 1986
would have been about the status of the national airspace system today.
This would be sort of like predicting the federal budget or national debt

or
the Dow Jones Average in 2020.

What is to say some other new navaid technology won't come up before 2020?

A much bigger worry is probably whether 100LL will be available in 2020.

In other words, all this discussion about GPS as sole nav really is not
worth considering and we should all just go planning for both ground-based
and GPS navigation for the foreseeable future, in fact for many of this
group probably for the rest of their flying lives.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com




  #5  
Old July 18th 03, 08:18 AM
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Default



Richard Kaplan wrote:

Suppose the FAA truly does plan to decommission all navaids except GPS.

How long do you think it would take to design, test, and publish replacement
WAAS GPS approaches to replace every ILS, LOC, or other approach in
existence today which does not meet the criteria for a straight GPS overlay
approach?

As food for thought, one of the advantages of even non-WAAS GPS is supposed
to be the ability to publish approaches to any airport in the U.S. Well,
years after the introduction of GPS my own home airport (KWAY) still does
not have an instrument approach of any type at all; a request is pending,
but I have been told it could be a long wait.

So any guess how long it would take to convert all current approaches to
either GPS overlay or GPS WAAS so that we could decommission all the other
navaids?


The ILS will be around for a long time to come because of international
agreements for one, and the fact the airlines are broke and have already spent a
bundle for ILS autoland for much of the fleet.

As to your airport not having a GPS approach, the FAA staffing for approach
design is wholly inadequate to achieve the goals of the headline grabbers. And,
where an airport does not already have at least one IAP the environmental hoops
those designers have to jump through are almost a show-stopper. The EPA is a
big factor in that one, and they aren't in love with airplanes at that agency.

  #6  
Old July 18th 03, 01:41 PM
Richard Kaplan
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Default



wrote in message ...

where an airport does not already have at least one IAP the environmental

hoops
those designers have to jump through are almost a show-stopper. The EPA

is a
big factor in that one, and they aren't in love with airplanes at that

agency.

Well, you may well be right about that one. Of course, it does put
perspective on the apparent "advantages" we were originally "sold" about GPS
approaches -- I recall reading as far back as 10 years ago about how we
would have "approaches to every airport" and "ILS-type minimums to even
small airports." Well, it seems to be that the reality is that adding a
first approach is very difficult for airports which have none, whereas for
airports with existing approaches the reduction in minimums with a GPS
approach will be minimal if any over the curent portfolio of approaches.
The strongest argument seems to be simply the cost reduction to the
government if they can decommission navaids.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com


  #7  
Old July 18th 03, 03:24 PM
Stan Gosnell
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Default

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
:

Well, you may well be right about that one. Of course, it does put
perspective on the apparent "advantages" we were originally "sold"
about GPS approaches -- I recall reading as far back as 10 years ago
about how we would have "approaches to every airport" and "ILS-type
minimums to even small airports." Well, it seems to be that the
reality is that adding a first approach is very difficult for airports
which have none, whereas for airports with existing approaches the
reduction in minimums with a GPS approach will be minimal if any over
the curent portfolio of approaches. The strongest argument seems to be
simply the cost reduction to the government if they can decommission
navaids.


If you want an approach, the airport management has to push to get it.
Approaches don't just happen, they have to be actively supported. We've
been trying to get a GPS approach from the south at my home airport, but
since that's over the Gulf, nobody else cares, so it's not happening, even
though we've been pushing the airport manager. If he does nothing, the FAA
does nothing. We drew up the approach, and all the FAA has to do is fly &
approve it, but nothing has happened in over 3 years. Nothing happens
quickly in the FAA's world except for violations.

--
Regards,

Stan

  #8  
Old July 18th 03, 07:04 PM
Scott Moore
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Posts: n/a
Default

Richard Kaplan wrote:

Suppose the FAA truly does plan to decommission all navaids except GPS.

How long do you think it would take to design, test, and publish replacement
WAAS GPS approaches to replace every ILS, LOC, or other approach in
existence today which does not meet the criteria for a straight GPS overlay
approach?


Pretty much nobody, including the FAA has proposed doing away with ILS for
anytime soon, so there is no point.

By the way, the terrorists told me they were going to attack your back yard
soon, have you looked ?

--
For most men, true happiness can only be achieved with a woman.
Also for most men, true happiness can only be achieved without a woman.
Sharp minds have noted that these two rules tend to conflict.....
  #9  
Old July 18th 03, 07:05 PM
Scott Moore
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Default

Richard Kaplan wrote:


A much bigger worry is probably whether 100LL will be available in 2020.


I hear the terrorists are going to attack the 100LL supply.

--
For most men, true happiness can only be achieved with a woman.
Also for most men, true happiness can only be achieved without a woman.
Sharp minds have noted that these two rules tend to conflict.....
  #10  
Old July 19th 03, 05:04 AM
PlanetJ
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Posts: n/a
Default

I would say teleportation will exist before ALL ground NAVAIDS are cut off.
Beam me up!!!!



"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
...
Suppose the FAA truly does plan to decommission all navaids except GPS.

How long do you think it would take to design, test, and publish

replacement
WAAS GPS approaches to replace every ILS, LOC, or other approach in
existence today which does not meet the criteria for a straight GPS

overlay
approach?

As food for thought, one of the advantages of even non-WAAS GPS is

supposed
to be the ability to publish approaches to any airport in the U.S. Well,
years after the introduction of GPS my own home airport (KWAY) still does
not have an instrument approach of any type at all; a request is pending,
but I have been told it could be a long wait.

So any guess how long it would take to convert all current approaches to
either GPS overlay or GPS WAAS so that we could decommission all the other
navaids?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com





 




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