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Hold "as published"?



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 19th 03, 01:15 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"K. Ari Krupnikov" wrote in message
...

My 196 has a redundant power supply?


Beats the hell outta me. Read the manual.



Besides, you might not be fully
confident of the continued flawless operation of your other avionics,
but they're the best you've got.


That lack of confidence is the reason it's better to land than to hold.



Have you ever dealt with IFR NORDOs?


Many times.



I'm curious, you're saying everything is shut down until the NORDO
lands.


Oh, I don't think I said that.



Is there a good reason pilots are taught one set of procedures,
while ATC follow another?


No.


  #52  
Old September 19th 03, 01:24 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Richard Thomas" wrote in message
...

So Air Traffic will shut down everything in reasonable distance of the
aircrafts routing until such time it lands its destination or a call is
received from the pilot saying he is on the ground after landing in vmc
conditions?


If it is nonradar, yes.



If this is the case (which I really hope it is) why are we taught that, in
the event of lost comms we are supposed to commence an approach at the ETA
or EFC time?


I think it's just for the sake of tradition.


  #53  
Old September 19th 03, 01:27 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"David Megginson" wrote in message
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You are supposed to be flying at your planned altitude. I don't know
how far ATC would be willing to trust that, though -- you'd certainly
be within your rights to choose a different altitude to avoid
turbulence or icing.


Where are those rights found?



How good a job can primary surveillance radar do on picking out a
target's altitude?


It can't do that job at all.


  #54  
Old September 19th 03, 01:33 PM
David Megginson
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"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

You are supposed to be flying at your planned altitude. I don't know
how far ATC would be willing to trust that, though -- you'd certainly
be within your rights to choose a different altitude to avoid
turbulence or icing.


Where are those rights found?


Emergency authority of the pilot (sorry, I left out the adjective
"severe" before "turbulence"). If I'm flying in IMC and go NORDO,
then hit icing or severe turbulence, I'm not going to worry about
sticking with my flight-plan altitude.

I don't claim that it would be OK for the pilot to change altitude
just to avoid light or moderate chop.


All the best,


David
  #55  
Old September 19th 03, 01:34 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"David Megginson" wrote in message
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You don't want to NORDO to squawk 7600?


Certainly not continuously, it sets off a very annoying alarm in terminal
facilities. I'd squawk 7600 for about a minute and then go back to my
assigned discrete code. It avoids that nasty alarm and aids tracking in
enroute facilities. One minute is plenty of time to make ATC aware that
you're NORDO, if they didn't know already, and they're going to consider you
NORDO until they hear from you.


  #56  
Old September 19th 03, 01:35 PM
David Megginson
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"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

You don't want to NORDO to squawk 7600?


Certainly not continuously, it sets off a very annoying alarm in terminal
facilities. I'd squawk 7600 for about a minute and then go back to my
assigned discrete code. It avoids that nasty alarm and aids tracking in
enroute facilities. One minute is plenty of time to make ATC aware that
you're NORDO, if they didn't know already, and they're going to consider you
NORDO until they hear from you.


That's interesting. What do the other controllers in the group think?


All the best,


David
  #57  
Old September 19th 03, 05:22 PM
K. Ari Krupnikov
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"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"K. Ari Krupnikov" wrote in message
...

My 196 has a redundant power supply?


Beats the hell outta me. Read the manual.


That wasn't really a question. The question mark referred to it being
one possible answer to your "what bizarre failure". Prepend "how
about" to make it grammatical.

Garmin 196 is powered by 4 AA batteries and will provide ~4 hours of
guidance after the cigarette lighter adapter goes dead. So I could
have no comms, no mode c and no electrical, and still know with some
confidence where I am.

I admit that this is an unlikely set of circumstances as I also carry
a handheld transceiver. OTOH, it never occurred to me to carry a
handheld transponder :=)

Ari.

  #58  
Old September 19th 03, 05:29 PM
John Harper
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Well yes, but it's a big field! The VOR is on the far NW corner
of the field (actually just off the field, I drive past it when I go to
my avionics shop). It's probably about 1.5 miles from the center
of the field. Not a huge deal but if what they really want is to take
you over the center of the runway then I guess it matters.

John

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1063899550.668753@sj-nntpcache-5...

I've been chewed out by Bay (now Norcal) when told "cross
San Jose at xxx" - there was a solid undercast so I just aimed
for the VOR. At some point he said "I told you cross San Jose
at xxx" and gave me a vector which was in fact mid-field. This
was the same controller who a few minutes earlier had given
me a vector which would take me straight into the side of a
mountain in a small number of minutes (it was fortunately VMC above
the overcast), one of two times I've said "unable".

Otoh when cleared "direct Palo Alto" there's little ambiguity.

I guess I would always assume the navaid unless there was some
good reason not to, reading it back (now!) as "96S, direct Sacramento
VOR" for example.


When told to cross somewhere I would always assume a navaid versus an
airport. But where's the ambiguity with San Jose? The airport diagram
shows the VOR/DME to be on the field.




  #59  
Old September 19th 03, 06:06 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1063989042.182645@sj-nntpcache-3...

Well yes, but it's a big field! The VOR is on the far NW corner
of the field (actually just off the field, I drive past it when I go to
my avionics shop). It's probably about 1.5 miles from the center
of the field. Not a huge deal but if what they really want is to take
you over the center of the runway then I guess it matters.


If you were told to "cross San Jose" and you took it to mean the VOR, then
you did nothing wrong.


  #60  
Old September 19th 03, 06:32 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"K. Ari Krupnikov" wrote in message
...

That wasn't really a question. The question mark referred to it being
one possible answer to your "what bizarre failure". Prepend "how
about" to make it grammatical.

Garmin 196 is powered by 4 AA batteries and will provide ~4 hours of
guidance after the cigarette lighter adapter goes dead. So I could
have no comms, no mode c and no electrical, and still know with some
confidence where I am.

I admit that this is an unlikely set of circumstances as I also carry
a handheld transceiver. OTOH, it never occurred to me to carry a
handheld transponder :=)


I see. After a failure that causes you to lose both of your completely
independent transceivers, and your transponder, you're confident of the
continued flawless operation of your other avionics because your other
avionics consist solely of a battery operated Garmin 196.


 




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