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#11
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front of the spars, wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to keep it secure. Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's no need to fret about fouling flight controls. Nice. The only trouble is that I carefully trimmed the straps off the Camelbak to stop them tangling round things they shouldn't ought to. Back then I was flying the club's Pegase and the Camelbak sat nicely behind the adjustable seat back. I've wondered about doing the same in the Libelle: its only a 1.5 litre Camelbak so it may be possible to sit it in behind the top of the seat. I take the points made about being clouted round the ears by the water supply: actually, a gallon of water weighs 10 lbs, not 8. My Camelbak is only 1.5 kg (3.5 lbs but still.... My spar-top bag clips onto the grunging bar studs so it may restrain a Camelbak that's on the inside. That certainly needs investigation. My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept nearly horizontal. I thought that might be the case. BTW, I've sat on the valve too when it got down between me and the side of the seat pan. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#12
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
Were that I were little, Nyal - or at least littler! grin I should have said before that I'm flying an ASW-19, it's Martin who's interested in the Libelle libation setup. Ah Ha. *NOW* I understand how you tied it to the wing pins. I was wondering! That would also work for a Pegase or ASW-20 but not for a Libelle with its single wing pin. However, I could probably use a double keyhole in an alloy plate to tie it to the grunging pins on top of the spars. Said pins are like the heads of two rather large nails that project from the tops of the spars and are used with the grunging bar[1] to pull the wings together during rigging. [1] general term in the Cambridge club for this tool. SZD Juniors and Kestrels also have grunging bars. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#13
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Martin Gregorie wrote: actually, a gallon of water weighs 10 lbs, not 8. That depend on which side of the pond you are on. Despite the American proclivity for having everything oversize, their gallon is a wimp of a portion as are their pints of beer. Andy |
#14
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
Andy wrote: Martin Gregorie wrote: actually, a gallon of water weighs 10 lbs, not 8. That depend on which side of the pond you are on. Despite the American proclivity for having everything oversize, their gallon is a wimp of a portion as are their pints of beer. Andy Roger that. Explains how that Air Canada 767 got into trouble, doesn't it :-) Maybe it ought to be Gaylon or Galoun vs. Gallon. |
#15
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
No problem - just measure everything in ounces! The American pint is 16
ounces, the British pint is 20 ounces, etc., etc. Who needs Gaylon, Galoun, Gallons, Imperial or otherwise? grin OK, OK, for the purists the Imperial fluid ounce is 1.04 American fluid ounces - close enough for government work. On the subject of beer, I'm a Yank but after spending 8 plus years in Britain I've thoroughly converted to the viewpoint that what we Yanks call beer should be put back into the horse! Except for Yuengling, Saranac, or River Horse, of course....YMMV -John Papa3 wrote: Andy wrote: Martin Gregorie wrote: actually, a gallon of water weighs 10 lbs, not 8. That depend on which side of the pond you are on. Despite the American proclivity for having everything oversize, their gallon is a wimp of a portion as are their pints of beer. Andy Roger that. Explains how that Air Canada 767 got into trouble, doesn't it :-) Maybe it ought to be Gaylon or Galoun vs. Gallon. |
#16
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
I put the Camelbak just in back of my head, in front of the spars, wrapping its harness around the spar safety pins to keep it secure. Nothing else is there except for the battery, so there's no need to fret about fouling flight controls. My Camelbak will indeed leak if the tube isn't kept nearly horizontal. When I put it in the plane I route the tube outside the cockpit, and after I'm in I route it over my shoulder and then under my shoulder harness. Once (but only once) I got out and left the tube dangling on the seat. I discovered after I'd gotten in again that it takes a long time for your pants and underpants to dry out... grin -John Martin Gregorie wrote: Ouch. But, surely that means putting the Camelbak through the hatch behind the spars? That makes my teeth itch: there are far too many control runs back there for it to get tangled up with. (from another message) Is there an issue with the Camelbak dribbling down your neck or on your pants (if you leave the tube dangling) if its behind your head? Also not applicable to Libelle as I fly a Std. Cirrus. My solution was to make up a carbon fibre plate that holds my radio speaker, and keeps stuff on the shelf behind my head. I put my bag behind this but offset so that in the event of large decelleration forces being applied the CG of the bag will be on the port side of the plate. Theory is that any liquid filled projectile will pass a centimetre or so to the left of my ear. Strangely my cheap Raleigh cycling bag does not leak with the tube significantly lower than the bag. |
#17
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
jcarlyle wrote:
On the subject of beer, I'm a Yank but after spending 8 plus years in Britain I've thoroughly converted to the viewpoint that what we Yanks call beer should be put back into the horse! Except for Yuengling, Saranac, or River Horse, of course....YMMV There are honourable exceptions. Sierra Pale Ale is quite drinkable (though why it should be sold over here is a mystery), and if you're at Kitty Hawk the theres an E-ball bitter at the "Outer Banks Brewing Station" that's most acceptable. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#18
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On Friday, January 12, 2007 at 2:30:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... |
#19
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On 5/2/21 1:41 PM, Tony wrote:
On Friday, January 12, 2007 at 2:30:48 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote: Leaving aside the fire or short issue, you need to consider what it would feel like to be hit in the back of the head with an 80 lb sack. Many of the first and second generation gliders have the "storage shelf" level with the back of the pilot's head and nothing (no bulkhead or other structure except a flimsy headrest) in between. A gallon of water weighs about 8 lbs, and it's very possible to induce a rapid 10G deceleration in an otherwise survivable crash (many texts talk about survivable 20G pulses). 10Gs operating on 8lbs of water with a straight shot to the back of your head or neck could put you in a world of hurt. At minumum, you need to have a system of tying the bag down to some solid structure. If using the shelf, you'll probably need to run anchor bolts down to the bulkhead surrounding the landing gear. LS, for example, has very detailed instructions on doing this. I've seen a couple of guys go to the trouble of mounting water supplies behind the main bulkead (in front of the spars and out of the way of the mixers/ control rods). They fill the supply through a tube. I would worry about cleaning the container out periodically lest it get funky over time, but I'm sure they've thought of this. Cheers, Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 jcarlyle wrote: I, like probably most glider pilots, put my Camelbak behind my head next to my battery. But a cautionary tale seems appropriate here. Last Summer a club member had his glider totaled when his battery set fire to his empty Camelbak. The probable causes, pinched wires and too big a battery fuse, were certainly preventable. However, it's clear that the Camelbak acted as tinder for the overheated battery, and the fire may not have occurred if the Camelbak hadn't been placed next to the battery. -John Gav Goudie wrote: Why dont you just put it behind your head like everyone else?! The seat pan / control column support wasnt designed to have a camelbak 'lashed' to it and its easier to work with gravity than against it!! AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... Here's my chance to (maybe, har har) set new RAS records for contributing to an old thread (14 years) while maximizing thread drift!!! (Will I need a new record category? Who's in charge of RAS, anyway?) I blame this on the thunderstorm that just drove me indoors... So, OK, there's always devils in the details, but on the assumption that the following quoted statement lacks any intentional hyperbole "...an 11g deceleration will...liquefy your internal organs", if he could, Col Paul Stapp (and many other investigators in years since) and considerable, multi-field, crash data (e.g. from aviation, auto racing, etc.) might beg to differ. Many a (sore and bruised) person has survived up to 20g decelerations, if I'm to believe lots of "technical crash stuff" I've read over the years. And, no, I'm not volunteering to become one! That quibble noted, strapping things firmly (in addition to yourself, of course, hyuk hyuk), is definitely a good thing, in the event of crash-induced deceleration... Bob W. |
#20
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Libelle Camelbak stowage
On Sun, 02 May 2021 12:41:33 -0700, Tony wrote:
AFAIK, being involved in multiple accident investigations, an 11g deceleration will fail your restraints and liquefy your internal organs. So securing your Camel full of ice and using it as a cooling headrest should be well outside risk considerations...the oxygen rack is even scarier, even though my charged steel bottle only weighs 13#. Without getting into why I offer this, I would defer to anyone that can show their work... I just use the bum bag thingy that Glasfaser sell for fitting in Libelles. Its well made, pretty strong with a 2mm fibreglass base and clips rather tenaciously to the rigging spigots on top of the mainspars. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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