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Question: Researching Project



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 11th 03, 05:59 PM
Tilt
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Posts: n/a
Default Question: Researching Project

Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.

As far as money goes, I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to
cheap it out. I may have others go in on this project with me. I know I
don't really want to spend much more than around $75,000 (Canadian). It's
hard to think of cost figures this early.

So can anyone point me in the direction of some good quality (proven)
aircraft projects that I can research further? As long as they (somewhat)
follow the above criteria.

Thanks,
Lyle
(Alberta, Canada)


  #2  
Old December 11th 03, 07:47 PM
Bryan
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Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Lyle,

" I'm sort of looking for a high-wing 4 place type plane. I want something
with a bit of performance (able to reach around 150 knots or higher), and
some VERY light aerobatics."

A very good match for your criteria is the BD-4 designed by Jim Bede back in
the 60's. While not a true 4 place by original design, a proven
modification to extend the fuselage does make it a true 4 place. The BD-4
meets and exceeds the performance you are looking for. Mind you, it is not
a beautiful plane with sleek rounded lines, rather it has a boxy fuselage.
This plane can give about the best bang for the buck and has a proven record
with hundreds built and flying.

Check it out at http://bd-4.org/

Bryan


"Tilt" wrote in message
news:Of2Cb.663673$pl3.69462@pd7tw3no...
Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a

high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.



  #3  
Old December 12th 03, 02:20 AM
James R. Freeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bearhawk best bang per buck

"Tilt" wrote in message
news:Of2Cb.663673$pl3.69462@pd7tw3no...
Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a

high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.

As far as money goes, I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to
cheap it out. I may have others go in on this project with me. I know I
don't really want to spend much more than around $75,000 (Canadian). It's
hard to think of cost figures this early.

So can anyone point me in the direction of some good quality (proven)
aircraft projects that I can research further? As long as they (somewhat)
follow the above criteria.

Thanks,
Lyle
(Alberta, Canada)




  #4  
Old December 12th 03, 02:47 AM
Tilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Well, you're right about the beauty factor!!

The four seater even looks...um...less...beautiful!!

Couldn't really find anywhere on the site that talks about costs. And I
think I'd rather build from a specific kit. However, I will keep it on the
list (for research sake). It does fit the other requirements I was looking
for.

Thanks,
Lyle


"Bryan" wrote in message
...
Hi Lyle,

" I'm sort of looking for a high-wing 4 place type plane. I want

something
with a bit of performance (able to reach around 150 knots or higher), and
some VERY light aerobatics."

A very good match for your criteria is the BD-4 designed by Jim Bede back

in
the 60's. While not a true 4 place by original design, a proven
modification to extend the fuselage does make it a true 4 place. The BD-4
meets and exceeds the performance you are looking for. Mind you, it is

not
a beautiful plane with sleek rounded lines, rather it has a boxy fuselage.
This plane can give about the best bang for the buck and has a proven

record
with hundreds built and flying.

Check it out at http://bd-4.org/

Bryan


"Tilt" wrote in message
news:Of2Cb.663673$pl3.69462@pd7tw3no...
Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a

high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.





  #5  
Old December 12th 03, 02:51 AM
Tilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for the info James,

I forgot to mention one thing. I'm not really keen on a tail dragger. The
bearhawk also looks a bit compact. I'm a bigger tall sort of guy and like my
elbow room. I was hoping for some more room in the back for a 4 place craft.

Lyle



"James R. Freeman" wrote in message
...
Bearhawk best bang per buck

"Tilt" wrote in message
news:Of2Cb.663673$pl3.69462@pd7tw3no...
Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a

high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.

As far as money goes, I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want

to
cheap it out. I may have others go in on this project with me. I know I
don't really want to spend much more than around $75,000 (Canadian).

It's
hard to think of cost figures this early.

So can anyone point me in the direction of some good quality (proven)
aircraft projects that I can research further? As long as they

(somewhat)
follow the above criteria.

Thanks,
Lyle
(Alberta, Canada)






  #6  
Old December 12th 03, 03:53 AM
RobertR237
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article y2aCb.665242$6C4.242523@pd7tw1no, "Tilt"
writes:


Thanks for the info James,

I forgot to mention one thing. I'm not really keen on a tail dragger. The
bearhawk also looks a bit compact. I'm a bigger tall sort of guy and like my
elbow room. I was hoping for some more room in the back for a 4 place craft.

Lyle



Then forget the BD-4 unless you have a good shoehorn.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

  #7  
Old December 12th 03, 07:11 AM
Holger Stephan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Tilt wrote:

Couldn't really find anywhere on the site that talks about costs. And I
think I'd rather build from a specific kit. However, I will keep it on the
list (for research sake). It does fit the other requirements I was looking
for.


Currently there is no kit supplier for the BD-4. TVAP who used to sell the
kits are winding down their business and supporting only existing
customers. Their quickbuilt kits went for US$25,000. TVAP did never really
probe the market and stepped back for internal reasons. That the owners
keep a money losing business alive only to support the existing builders I
find rather remarkable.

While they are phasing out a new supplier is phasing in. At first parts like
the wing spars are going to be offered (starting February '04). Gradually
complete kits will be made available again. There is also another startup
targeting a BD-4 like kit. I can't tell more about the latter but take it
as sign for enough activities around the BD-4 to keep it very alive even
after a 35 year history. No wonder, as there is still no alternative for an
easy to build, inexpensive metal semi-4-seat high wing that gives you about
a MHP for each HP up front.

- Holger (don't every design need its lobbyist?)

webmaster [at] bd-4 [dot] org.
  #8  
Old December 12th 03, 02:07 PM
AlwaysLearning
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I forgot to mention one thing. I'm not really keen on a tail dragger. The
bearhawk also looks a bit compact. I'm a bigger tall sort of guy and like my
elbow room. I was hoping for some more room in the back for a 4 place craft.

Lyle


I don't think you're going to find a larger project than the Bearhawk.
It is relatively HUGE, especially in back, compared to just about
everything else.

As far as not liking a taildragger, any reason why you couldn't put
nosegear on it? Find a nosegear off a Cessna 182 and figure a way to
get it to fit, or maybe the nosegear off a Tri-Pacer, though engine
interference will be "interesting", unless you go with an O-320.

Drew
  #9  
Old December 12th 03, 04:31 PM
Del Rawlins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 12 Dec 2003 05:07 AM, AlwaysLearning posted the following:
I forgot to mention one thing. I'm not really keen on a tail dragger.
The bearhawk also looks a bit compact. I'm a bigger tall sort of guy
and like my elbow room. I was hoping for some more room in the back
for a 4 place craft. Lyle


I don't think you're going to find a larger project than the Bearhawk.
It is relatively HUGE, especially in back, compared to just about
everything else.

As far as not liking a taildragger, any reason why you couldn't put
nosegear on it? Find a nosegear off a Cessna 182 and figure a way to
get it to fit, or maybe the nosegear off a Tri-Pacer, though engine
interference will be "interesting", unless you go with an O-320.


People who have flown them say that as far as taildraggers go, the
Bearhawk's handling is pretty tame. As far as the cargo space goes, try
to find somebody who is building one that will let you look at their
project. The pictures just don't do it justice. Reserve your opinion
until you see the actual fuselage. I'd had my plans for 3-4 years and
it was still a real awakening when I got to see a fellow builder's
fuselage for the first time.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
  #10  
Old December 12th 03, 06:08 PM
Tilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm going to add a bit of info to add to the equation...

I really would prefer a composite style 'kit' along the lines of the Jabiru.
I like the trike style setup for landing gear, I've never been a fan of
tail-draggers.

I understand that most home-builts (or at least the one's I'm looking at)
are not very big. I'm 6 feet tall and weigh around 225 lbs. I like the 4
seater idea because I can see myself taking my family or friends on trips
(not sure how far I'd go...too early in my thinking). I'd like the ability
to take passengers that are around 200 lbs each. Not that it'll be that way
everytime, but I'd like to have that ability. Realistically the passenger
weight loads would probably vary a lot. So I do understand that space will
be limited, but I just don't want to be stuffed in like a sardine!!

I was checking out the New Glastar 4 seater last night (on their website),
and I was thinking it may be the one. However, I came across the height
limit for backseaters. 5 feet tall!!!! How usefull is that??!!!

Anyways, this is what I'm looking at. Maybe I'm putting too much emphysis on
the 4 seater thing. One could say that you'd probably mostly only ever fly
with one other person. And for the occational longer trips with the family
you could rent a Cessna or something. But then again, that defeats the whole
purpose of building my own aircraft.

Oh, and one other thing...I hate to say it but, easthetics does play a
little role in my choice. For my eyes, I can't see myself owning a BD-4 or a
Bearhawk. I understand everyone has a different eye for beauty. I'm partial
to something a bit more newer looking and sleek.

Cheers,
Lyle


"Tilt" wrote in message
news:Of2Cb.663673$pl3.69462@pd7tw3no...
Hi,

I'm looking to get into a homebuilt project within a few years from now.
I've been doing some early research to see what's out there and look at
options.

I haven't come close to picking a final subject as my project yet, but I
have some pretty good ideas of what I want. So far the aircraft that
interests me the most is a Jabiru J450. I'm sort of looking for a

high-wing
4 place type plane. I want something with a bit of performance (able to
reach around 150 knots or higher), and some VERY light aerobatics. Now I
already understand that the Jabiru doesn't quite go fast enough for my
needs, but it gives you an idea of what I'm looking for.

As far as money goes, I don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to
cheap it out. I may have others go in on this project with me. I know I
don't really want to spend much more than around $75,000 (Canadian). It's
hard to think of cost figures this early.

So can anyone point me in the direction of some good quality (proven)
aircraft projects that I can research further? As long as they (somewhat)
follow the above criteria.

Thanks,
Lyle
(Alberta, Canada)




 




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