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#11
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"houstondan" wrote in message oups.com... nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe (does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again. the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"?? dan I hate to admit it, but I may have to retract my earlier comment about not flying over the mountains at night. Like I said, I fly over the Sierras all the time. From the time I hit Tahoe, until I get to Placerville, there is literally NOWHERE to safely put it down. In fact, I don't think I could even walk away from the plane if I had to put it down. With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark outside the plane? I'd be dead either way, right? I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for thought. Adam N7966L Beech Super III |
#12
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Nw,
If the engine quits in the areas I was flying in I probably would never be found no matter ware I landed and would take weeks to walk out how wooded it is. Uh, a simple, modern ELT would solve that quite nicely. See www.equipped.org -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#13
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"mindenpilot" wrote in message ... "houstondan" wrote in message oups.com... nw...enjoy reading your stuff. keep 'em coming. as an owner wannabe (does holding-up convenience stores really make you a bad person??) i keep winding up at the conclusion that a 150/2 probably makes the most sense for me. for now. maybe. maybe that 160hp aerobat taildragger in trade a plane?? no, there goes the budget again. the use you are getting out of your 150 is sure encouraging. now, i expect this is a pretty stupid question but what the heck " do you have any kind of gps plan if the one and only motor does quit while above the mountain in the dark? known gps glide-to spots"?? dan I hate to admit it, but I may have to retract my earlier comment about not flying over the mountains at night. Like I said, I fly over the Sierras all the time. From the time I hit Tahoe, until I get to Placerville, there is literally NOWHERE to safely put it down. In fact, I don't think I could even walk away from the plane if I had to put it down. With that in mind, what difference would it make if it was light or dark outside the plane? I'd be dead either way, right? I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for thought. Adam N7966L Beech Super III Adam, Thanks for posting that. I was thinking the same thing. If you are flying over such inhospitable terrain, what does it matter whether or not you can see the ground? That being said, putting a plane like a 150 into the trees isn't impossible at all. Simply mushing it into the foliage as slow as possible has been accomplished many times, even if it is a crap shoot. Given the hieght of some of those trees would make it interesting to get down afterwards though. |
#14
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NW_PILOT wrote: My son went to sleep on me and the batteries died in the CD player.... Steven, I think we have roughly the same experience. I have just over 400hrs in 4 years and have owned a plane the last two years. I agree that night flying is a great experience but we have limited ourselves to only local airports on full moon nights. We attend Wings Safety Seminars regularly and at least once a year, there is a review on accident statistics. The most deadly combination is always some various combinations of IMC (terrain), out-of-fuel, equipment malfunctions AND night flying. I cringed in reading the heading of your post: night flying + mountains + single engine plane, but thought to myself that everybody had their own flying comfort level. Some are more willing to take a risk than others. The batteries in the CD player died. The batteries in your GPS may die suddenly too. In our short two years of plane ownership, we had seen our engine need replacement with 3 cracked cylinders without any warning signs (compressions were in the high 70's, oil analysis were fine, engine ran great etc.). We had a complete electrical failure in one trip due to bad crimped job of one of the alternator wires (the logbook indicated that it was done 5 years ago). The carb heat failed to work suddenly one day due to a crack in the box. Everytime that we opened the hood (at least every other month in the 25 hrs oil change), we inspected everything carefully. We also do at least 15- minutes preflight check, but we always expect that someday something in that 30-years old plane may break. My discomfort level went sky high in knowing that your son (presumably a youngster) was with you. I would never want to tell a parent how to treat their children. I just want to register my feeling as a pilot and a mother. Hai Longworth |
#15
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Mindenpilot,
I don't know if I'll be doing it anytime soon, but it's definitely food for thought. It is. Ultimately, it all comes down to how you want to manage risk in your life. Depends on a lot of factors which are very personal. E.g., I don't have kids, so I figure I'm a little less risk averse than a multiple Dad might be. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#16
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"Jack Allison" wrote in message ... RST Engineering wrote: Single engine Night Mountains Pick any two. I was kind of thinking along the same lines. Having flown across the Sierra Nevada's only a few times in the day, I sure wouldn't want to do so at night. Even a cloudless full moon night in a brand new high performance single engine...nope, wouldn't want to do it. Way too much cumulo-Granite down there. I'd much rather limit my mountain crossings to the daytime. -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Shopping Student I have flown numerous times single engine, day, over both rockies and sierras. I don't know what the actual realities are but the sierras are much more "scary". They rise faster, fewer valleys and more bare rock. I have always felt that I have had an "out" when flying over the rockies not so the sierras. Howard |
#17
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Single engine
Night Mountains I don't think single-engine is much risk compared to the other two. As a non-professional pilot, my my rule-of-thumb is that won't do any two of the following three: Night Mountains IFR weather (basically in significant flying in clouds) All three is a huge risk - Mark |
#18
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When I was young, I might have tried a trip like this, but the longer I
continue flying, and the longer I stay alive the less I like to take chances. You are decreasing your odds of a successful flight by 1) single engine over mountains, 2) very low power aircraft, and 3) no instrument rating. I might try one of these variables on a given day, but never all three at one time. Night flight is statistically much more dangerous than day flight. Heck, many countries don't even allow night VFR flight. But, I don't want that here in the US!! I want the right to make that decision, and the more night VFR accidents that happen, the more likely night VFR will be banned here as well. If you are single engine over the mountains at night, you could easily fly into a cloud or even icing conditions without knowing it, and without sufficient instrument training and adequate additional climb capability, you might not find a way out before hitting something hard. "NW_PILOT" wrote in message ... I departed 63S about 7:30pm calm winds and clear skies were being reported for the entire trip home over the mountain ranges. I can say that yes it is black out there at night and every little noise is amplified when flying over dark mountainous terrain. The winds were not as expected took 2.7 hours to fly VFR GPS direct to KYKM. From KYKM to KVUO it took another 2.4 hours pluss the high clouds blocked out the stars and almost all the moon light. |
#19
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"Dude" wrote in message ... That being said, putting a plane like a 150 into the trees isn't impossible at all. Simply mushing it into the foliage as slow as possible has been accomplished many times, even if it is a crap shoot. Given the hieght of some of those trees would make it interesting to get down afterwards though. I've been doing some reading lately that advises pilots to aim for the base of the trees, not the foliage. Mushing it into the tops of the trees ensures that you will stall as soon as the plane touches the first treetop. The nose will drop and you will be going straight down from there. Unless the tree branches break the fall on the way down, there is a good chance you will not survive. The taller the trees, the farther you fall, the harder the impact. If you aim for the base of the trees, you'll be under control as close to the ground as possible when the stall occurs. You do have to be careful not to hit a tree trunk head-on, but if you aim right, the wings can be used to absorb energy, making the deceleration as gradual as possible. It's the quick deceleration that kills you or renders you unconscious and if there is a fire you are not getting out. I also used to think that mushing the plane into the treetops was the way to go, but obviously I've been rethinking that. And just reading the title of this thread gives me willies. To be honest, I thought it was a joke or a hypothetical question, not a recounting of an actual experience. Speaking for myself only, outright emergencies notwithstanding, you won't find me "Night flying in the mountains in a cessna 150". -Trent PP-ASEL |
#20
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If you are single engine over the mountains at night, you could easily fly
into a cloud or even icing conditions without knowing it, and without sufficient instrument training and adequate additional climb capability, you might not find a way out before hitting something hard. Additionally, if you lose your engine, where exactly are you going to put it down safely? |
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