If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
"CurlyNJudd" wrote in message ... I am not awake enough this morning to dissect and comment on your stats, but your latter comments are extremely relevant. A good pilot is safer than a bad driver, and I have to think that there are more genuinely bad drivers/1000 than there are bad pilots/1000. The problem with this argument is that everybody thinks they are a good driver/pilot. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
"Marten Kemp"
You believe this in spite of the fact that the fatal accident rate is 700% higher for personal flying than for driving? Sir, can you substantiate that amazing assertion? Citations, websites, etc? You mean you DIDN'T know that? Have you ever heard of the Nall Report? I thought most pilots of any experience knew the relative fatal accident rates of driving and flying. Check out the sites Ron Natalie posted. -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
"John Aldrich" wrote:
The problem with this argument is that everybody thinks they are a good driver/pilot. I think hours flown to accidents/incidents is as good an indicator as any. 2000+hours, no accidents, no incidents. Perhaps you are a far above average pilot, but that anecdote does nothing to prove that you are safer flying than driving. My Uncle Wilson smoked cigars every day of his adult life - and inhaled. He lived to be 93 years old. Does that prove smoking is safe? -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
|
#35
|
|||
|
|||
"Ace Pilot" wrote:
But are you going even further and saying that all pilots should believe that they could make a decision as stupid as the one JFK made? I certainly believe that about myself. I am constantly on guard against it. (BTW, I don't believe JFK's decision was all that monumentally stupid. In my short 700-hour flying career, I've made some that were just as questionable - the difference is that I lucked out and he didn't.) If I honestly believed that I was so inexperienced and lacked the training to recognize that I was making such a stupid decision, I wouldn't get in an airplane. And I'd like to think that nearly all pilots would exercise that level of sound judgment. That's where you're leaving the door open for the Devil: you think you're immune to your own bad decisions. I think there needs to be a distinction between most pilots claiming they would exercise better judgment than JFK and claiming they are better than the average pilot. That's a distinction without a difference. Average pilots do not kill themselves in plane crashes, Huh? i.e., JFK was not average. I think the rationalization that occurs in these newsgroups is that one would not make as poor a decision as JFK did, not that ones decision-making ability is better than the average pilot. Whatever; the illusion of superiority persists. Do you believe that you could, one day, make a stupid decision resulting in a catastrophic outcome? Of course I do. Better pilots than I do it all the time. Remember that 700% higher fatal rate? If so, how do you justify getting in an airplane and taking that risk? 'Most everything in life is a risk/benefit choice. [That comes across as rather critical/insulting, but I don't mean it that way in the least. I'd really like to hear your views on this matter. I think this discussion could yield some very valuable ideas, perhaps even change the way I view risks.] No offense taken. This is usenet, after all! :^) What I see in other pilots is simple refusal to recognize the *real* risks in what we do. If they did face it I believe many would stop flying, so instead they soothe themselves with this "drive to the airport" nonsense. This warm, fuzzy cloud of rationalization they fly in leads to just the kind of situation JFK got into. That they can continue to believe such a thing is a wonderment, but people will believe what they want to, facts be damned. -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
|
#37
|
|||
|
|||
"Highfllyer" wrote:
I have been both flying and driving for fifty years. In fifty years I have never scratched a passenger. In fifty years of driving I have been nearly killed twice, and I did lose a passenger. How many flying hours vs. driving hours do you have? How many flying trips vs. driving trips have you made? Richard Collins illustrated the reality of this best: he pointed out that, in his long life, he knew far more people who had been killed in plane crashes than ones who had been killed in car crashes. This is true even though the exposure to flying is far smaller than the exposure to driving for the population. Try this: how many celebtities can you name who have been killed in plane crashes versus ones who have been killed in car crashes? What is the relative exposure of celebrities to each form of travel? -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
"Marten Kemp" wrote:
Hitting the gear lever could also have some, ah, unfortunate consequences. Really? Gosh! -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
"Highfllyer" wrote in message
... JFK was flying on a night when the weather was legally VFR. If he HAD realized that it could be ACTUALLY IFR, while still being easily VFR LEGALLY and as reported by the aviation weather people he might not have messed up. Reading this, I started to wonder why the FAA doesn't define IFR in terms of horizon reference, and then it occurred to me that the basis for the IFR/VFR distinction is mainly aircraft separation. I bet it was only after the fact that IFR/IMC began to seem synonymous, but my guess is that they were originally intended to be completely orthogonal concepts. IFR rules were intended to keep aircraft separated. If you look at all the definitions for legal VFR flights (i.e. cloud separation and visibility) you'll see that they are geared towards visual separation of aircraft, with little (or no?) consideration to flying by visual reference. In time, I think people began to see them the VFR rules as neccesary and sufficient criteria for VFR flight. So, here's a thesis to discuss: was the FAA's original intent with IFR/VFR distinction simply aimed at aircraft separation and not focused on the issue of aircraft control by instruments? If you think about it, the fundamental reason for ATC is to separate aircraft. If there are circumstances where one could see another airplane to avoid it, but one cannot see the ground (e.g. New Mexico at night) then the FAA's position seems to be go ahead and fly on instruments without talking to us. |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news It could happen to ANY of us, under the right circumstances. There are very few accidents for which I don't feel that way, but I have to say JFK's was one of them. When I read about some guy doing barrel rolls 10 feet over the runway (Jeffco, Colorado a few years ago right as I was taxiing to take off) I don't really think there's much I can learn from it that I don't already know. Similarly, when a guy takes a single engine airplane VFR over miles and miles of ocean at night I can't really say it could've happened to any of us. I don't think I'd attempt to make his flight during the DAY let alone at night. If you're going to go to Martha's Vineyard in a single engine, you do it where you're going to be over water for three miles, not ten or twenty (whatever his farthest shore distance was going to work out to be). The man didn't deserve to die, especially not in such a terrible way, but what he did was really careless and more an example for Kennedys to learn from (they tend to think they are invincible) than the rest of us to learn from. It wasn't a flight where things slowly got out of hand. They got out of hand the second he decided to fly direct instead of staying along land. My personal wild guess is that he was acutely depressed and probably not worrying about his safety the way most of us would. I don't actually think he's actually as stupid as the accident would suggest. I just think he no longer cared so much and wasn't thinking very rationally or clearly. -Jonathan |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
REAL NAVY LIFE | B.C. Mallam | Naval Aviation | 2 | February 10th 05 01:20 AM |
'Room Temperature' | Anthony | Home Built | 11 | August 23rd 04 07:36 PM |
Pat Tillman's wife is available | Jim | Military Aviation | 1 | April 27th 04 07:12 PM |
WW 2 Ace, Richard Bongs, wife dies | Fitzair4 | Home Built | 2 | October 3rd 03 05:02 AM |
Air Force wife, kids found dead | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | July 19th 03 04:36 AM |