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Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 17th 07, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gig 601XL Builder
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Posts: 2,317
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student and
they did seem to slow things down a little.

I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."

From AVWeb

Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is recommending that
student pilots on solo flights be identified by a radio call-sign prefix so
air traffic controllers can take into account their limited experience and
knowledge. The recommendation came from the investigation of a crash on July
19, 2006, that killed a 16-year-old student who had logged 15 hours and was
on his second solo flight. Just before he touched down at Southend Airport,
a controller ordered him to turn left and climb to pattern height so an
overtaking Piper Meridian could land. It's believed he did not reconfigure
the aircraft and apply enough power for the unorthodox go-around and the
Cessna he was flying stalled and crashed a short time later. The four-person
investigation team concluded pilot Sam Cross was put "in a situation for
which his training and experience had not prepared him" after being
"instructed to carry out an unfamiliar and nonstandard manoeuvre," the AAIB
report said. Adding to the mix was the fact that Cross was returning to the
field after just eight minutes in the air because haze was reducing
visibility. His instructor was watching from the ground as the order to
deviate from the runway heading was complied with and he noted the nose-up
attitude of the Cessna before it stalled and spiralled into a park.
Investigators determined the flaps were at 20 degrees, the carb heat was on
and the engine was turning at 900 rpm at the time of the crash. Cross was
the youngest pilot ever to be killed in a plane crash in Britain.


  #2  
Old July 17th 07, 05:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Andy Hawkins
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Posts: 200
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

Hi,

In article ,
Gig 601XL BuilderwrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."


I'm learning to fly at a military field, and they use the prefix 'Tyro'

i.e.

Bumfigle Tower, Tyro G-ANDY, ....

Andy
  #3  
Old July 17th 07, 05:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,892
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student and
they did seem to slow things down a little.


I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."


My instructor taught this format: "Foobar Center, Cessna 12345A, student
pilot".

They do at least talk a bit slower if nothing else, which is handy
at some new, busy place.

And since we are always learning, aren't we always "students"? :-)

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #4  
Old July 17th 07, 06:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gatt
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Posts: 123
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student
and they did seem to slow things down a little.


Worked for me coming through PDX when the freq-changing knob broke on the
radio and I couldn't switch freqs to land at Troutdale. At first he was a
little surly but as soon as I told them I was a student pilot they contacted
TTD tower and calmly relayed instructions to enter the pattern and look for
the light signal.

They seemed a lot more helpful once they knew I had an excuse for being
clueless.

-c
Now I tell 'em I'm a student all the time. ; Every good pilot is a
student, right?



  #5  
Old July 17th 07, 08:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Judah
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Posts: 936
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:

How about a big yellow bumper sticker above the tail # of the airplane?

"CAUTION: STUDENT PILOT"


Seriously, though...

When I did my initial flight training, I was always taught to announce
"student pilot" on my initial callup and on hand offs any time I was solo.
ie: "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna 1234A, for Taxi with Uniform. Student Pilot".
In hindsight, part of the idea of putting it at the end was to specifically
attract attention to it as not being part of the normal callup.




Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student
and they did seem to slow things down a little.

I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."

From AVWeb

Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is recommending that
student pilots on solo flights be identified by a radio call-sign prefix
so air traffic controllers can take into account their limited
experience and knowledge. The recommendation came from the investigation
of a crash on July 19, 2006, that killed a 16-year-old student who had
logged 15 hours and was on his second solo flight. Just before he
touched down at Southend Airport, a controller ordered him to turn left
and climb to pattern height so an overtaking Piper Meridian could land.
It's believed he did not reconfigure the aircraft and apply enough power
for the unorthodox go-around and the Cessna he was flying stalled and
crashed a short time later. The four-person investigation team concluded
pilot Sam Cross was put "in a situation for which his training and
experience had not prepared him" after being "instructed to carry out an
unfamiliar and nonstandard manoeuvre," the AAIB report said. Adding to
the mix was the fact that Cross was returning to the field after just
eight minutes in the air because haze was reducing visibility. His
instructor was watching from the ground as the order to deviate from the
runway heading was complied with and he noted the nose-up attitude of
the Cessna before it stalled and spiralled into a park. Investigators
determined the flaps were at 20 degrees, the carb heat was on and the
engine was turning at 900 rpm at the time of the crash. Cross was the
youngest pilot ever to be killed in a plane crash in Britain.


  #6  
Old July 17th 07, 09:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student

and
they did seem to slow things down a little.

I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."

From AVWeb

Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is recommending that
student pilots on solo flights be identified by a radio call-sign prefix

so
air traffic controllers can take into account their limited experience and
knowledge. The recommendation came from the investigation of a crash on

July
19, 2006, that killed a 16-year-old student who had logged 15 hours and

was
on his second solo flight. Just before he touched down at Southend

Airport,
a controller ordered him to turn left and climb to pattern height so an
overtaking Piper Meridian could land. It's believed he did not reconfigure
the aircraft and apply enough power for the unorthodox go-around and the
Cessna he was flying stalled and crashed a short time later. The

four-person
investigation team concluded pilot Sam Cross was put "in a situation for
which his training and experience had not prepared him" after being
"instructed to carry out an unfamiliar and nonstandard manoeuvre," the

AAIB
report said. Adding to the mix was the fact that Cross was returning to

the
field after just eight minutes in the air because haze was reducing
visibility. His instructor was watching from the ground as the order to
deviate from the runway heading was complied with and he noted the nose-up
attitude of the Cessna before it stalled and spiralled into a park.
Investigators determined the flaps were at 20 degrees, the carb heat was

on
and the engine was turning at 900 rpm at the time of the crash. Cross was
the youngest pilot ever to be killed in a plane crash in Britain.


In may very well be a good idea and, as several contributors have pointed
out, it is commonly done by both civil and military flight schools.

However, in my none too humble opinion, it has nothing whatsoever to do with
the cited accident--in which the student pilot's status was presumably well
known. And, of course, it is phrased as though someone would like to see it
become a regulation.

(rant temporarily witheld)


  #7  
Old July 17th 07, 10:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ridge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged


The recommendation came from the investigation of a crash on

July
19, 2006, that killed a 16-year-old student who had logged 15 hours and

was
on his second solo flight. Just before he touched down at Southend

Airport,



In may very well be a good idea and, as several contributors have pointed
out, it is commonly done by both civil and military flight schools.

However, in my none too humble opinion, it has nothing whatsoever to do
with
the cited accident--in which the student pilot's status was presumably
well
known. And, of course, it is phrased as though someone would like to see
it
become a regulation.

(rant temporarily witheld)



I agree. When I made student solos to unfamiliar controlled fields I used
'student' after my call. It wasn't required, but I felt better knowing that
the controller might think twice before handing me anything unusual.

At my home field, which is uncontrolled, a high percentage of the traffic is
student traffic and I don't think the extra chatter of 'Student' in all the
pattern calls would help much.


  #8  
Old July 17th 07, 10:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Andy Hawkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 200
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

Hi,

In article ,
Peter wrote:
However, in my none too humble opinion, it has nothing whatsoever to do with
the cited accident--in which the student pilot's status was presumably well
known.


I'm not too sure of this. If you read the full report, I think it's said
that there was a change of ATC personnel between the time the student took
off, and when he landed.

I could be mis-remembering of course.

Andy
  #9  
Old July 17th 07, 11:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Judah
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

Andy Hawkins wrote in
:

Hi,

In article ,
Peter wrote:
However, in my none too humble opinion, it has nothing whatsoever to do
with the cited accident--in which the student pilot's status was
presumably well known.


I'm not too sure of this. If you read the full report, I think it's said
that there was a change of ATC personnel between the time the student
took off, and when he landed.


I have to agree with Peter on this one.

A specific set of unique and random circumstances caused an unfortunate, but
unique and random accident. There is no call to start create regulations to
protect from this specific set of unique and random circumstances from ever
happening again.

The change of ATC personnel is yet another contributing but random
circumstance that is not likely to be repeated with any frequency demanding a
regulation.
  #10  
Old July 18th 07, 01:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Travis Marlatte
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 233
Default Investigators Say Student Pilots Should Be Flagged

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Not IMHO a bad idea really. When I was training and flew to controlled
airspace for XC flights it was suggested that I mention I was a student

and
they did seem to slow things down a little.

I can see how a uniform way of doing this might be helpful both in
controlled and uncontrolled airspace. Example, "Bumfigle Tower, Cessna
Student 1234A, ...."

From AVWeb

Britain's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is recommending that
student pilots on solo flights be identified by a radio call-sign prefix

so
air traffic controllers can take into account their limited experience
and
knowledge. The recommendation came from the investigation of a crash on

July
19, 2006, that killed a 16-year-old student who had logged 15 hours and

was
on his second solo flight. Just before he touched down at Southend

Airport,
a controller ordered him to turn left and climb to pattern height so an
overtaking Piper Meridian could land. It's believed he did not
reconfigure
the aircraft and apply enough power for the unorthodox go-around and the
Cessna he was flying stalled and crashed a short time later. The

four-person
investigation team concluded pilot Sam Cross was put "in a situation for
which his training and experience had not prepared him" after being
"instructed to carry out an unfamiliar and nonstandard manoeuvre," the

AAIB
report said. Adding to the mix was the fact that Cross was returning to

the
field after just eight minutes in the air because haze was reducing
visibility. His instructor was watching from the ground as the order to
deviate from the runway heading was complied with and he noted the
nose-up
attitude of the Cessna before it stalled and spiralled into a park.
Investigators determined the flaps were at 20 degrees, the carb heat was

on
and the engine was turning at 900 rpm at the time of the crash. Cross was
the youngest pilot ever to be killed in a plane crash in Britain.


In may very well be a good idea and, as several contributors have pointed
out, it is commonly done by both civil and military flight schools.

However, in my none too humble opinion, it has nothing whatsoever to do
with
the cited accident--in which the student pilot's status was presumably
well
known. And, of course, it is phrased as though someone would like to see
it
become a regulation.

(rant temporarily witheld)




 




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