Wearing a G-1 flight jacket off base?

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message


If it's good enough to get shot at in, it's good enough to wear to
McDonalds.

I'm looking forward to seeing Marines in line at McD's wearing their PASGT
vests and Fritz helments...

(It's a joke, Doug! See :-)

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

On 10/17/03 7:14 PM, in article
, "Thomas Schoene"
wrote:

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message


If it's good enough to get shot at in, it's good enough to wear to
McDonalds.

I'm looking forward to seeing Marines in line at McD's wearing their PASGT
vests and Fritz helments...

(It's a joke, Doug! See :-)


Funny thing is: As soon as I wrote it, I predicted that sort of response.
It's a good joke, Tom! Happy to lob you the softball.

--Woody

Interesting contrast at Fallon and at Andrews AFB:

At Fallon, where there is barely a shoe to be found, bags off-base are a
big no-no. At Andrews, where you would think you might find a few more
regulation-quoters (albeit USAF ones), no problem. The Andrews
situation is explained by a) a different Service culture and b) the
realization that seeing guys in organizational clothing in and around
the area is *good* for PR. Don't know if it's consistent across the
USAF though.

-Jim C.

Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal wrote:

On 10/17/03 8:36 AM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:


Thanks for the answer JD.

And Woody, this wasn't something I was "worried" about, just something
I wondered about. I've got zero problem with a flyer wearing his G-1
off base, rules permitting or not.

Thanks,

~Michael

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/03 4:38 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:

What are the current regulations in regard to this? A friend of mine
in Chicago said while he was at lunch the other day he saw a Navy
officer in uniform and his G-1 at a fast food joint. He was suprised
to the see the flight jacket, because he was under the impression they
weren't allowed to be worn off base. I figure since the guy was in
uniform and the G-1 doesn't really get used in the air much anymore,
that it was fine to be wearing it.

Thanks,

~Michael

There are more important things to worry about but...

My understanding of the current regulations is:

Leather jackets may be worn either with khakis or with a flight suit on or
off base.

The green flight jacket may be worn only with the flight suit or with the
"working khakis" and then only on base.

Of course, I don't get spun up about it since I believe that pilots should
dress like pilots and a flight suit in town (jacket or no) expresses a
positive image to the public.

--Woody


The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones) BUT many of them opt for the green
Nomex flight jacket (which used to be an "aviators only item) instead of the
(standard) khaki jacket.

It's all part of the blending and melding that's so prevalent in the
military today. Rant over. I feel better.

--Woody

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message

(It's a joke, Doug! See :-)


Funny thing is: As soon as I wrote it, I predicted that sort of
response. It's a good joke, Tom! Happy to lob you the softball.

Hey, I can use all the help I can get.

Of course, it's not really a fair comparison. Marines wearing flak jackets
would be like you showing up with speed jeans, survival vest, and helmet.
The Marines dop get to go off-base in cammies, after all.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

Woody,

If it's good enough to get shot at in, it's good enough to wear to
McDonalds.

Every cop I've ever met would agree with you.

You get the prize for this week's most quotable line in R.A.M.N.

--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"That's as close as I've been to Earth in 60,000 years, and it's as close as
I EVER want to get."

- The Planet Mars, quoted in New Yorker Magazine


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 10/17/03 1:52 PM, in article
,
"Ogden Johnson III" wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote:

Of course, I don't get spun up about it since I believe that pilots
should
dress like pilots and a flight suit in town (jacket or no) expresses a
positive image to the public.

Maybe the flight suits of the Blue Angels or the Thunderbirds. I know
the flight suits worn by any number of the pilots in the squadrons I
served in would express anything *but* a "positive image to the
public", were they to be seen in them off-base.

OJ III
[Maj Foo, my OpsO, to Maj Bar, a Wing pogue assigned to fly with us to
maintain currency, "'Slick', when are you gonna survey that flight
suit? I'm ashamed to be seen on the flight line walking out to the
aircraft with you. The plane captains don't want you /sitting/ in
their aircraft, much less flying them. Maintenance Control wants me
to bring the book to you to sign the bird out and in, so you won't
have to enter their shack. ... ... ..."]

Strictly referring to the uniform itself (or organizational clothing for
you
purists): When I go to the grocery store in my flight suit, I am
immediately recognized as a pilot by the public. Since 9/11, OEF, and
OIF,
it expresses a positive image to the public because they know it's my
business clothes.

If you're referring to the overall condition of the garment, that's a
matter
of personal responsibility and command leadership (i.e., the XO needs to
pound a few heads and rattle the supply folks).

If it's good enough to get shot at in, it's good enough to wear to
McDonalds.

--Woody

On 10/18/03 10:03 AM, in article , "Jim Calpin"
wrote:

Interesting contrast at Fallon and at Andrews AFB:

At Fallon, where there is barely a shoe to be found, bags off-base are a
big no-no. At Andrews, where you would think you might find a few more
regulation-quoters (albeit USAF ones), no problem. The Andrews
situation is explained by a) a different Service culture and b) the
realization that seeing guys in organizational clothing in and around
the area is *good* for PR. Don't know if it's consistent across the
USAF though.

-Jim C.


Jim,

That's because the Commander at NSAWC is a post-CARGRU Admiral. Those guys
drink too much salt-peter and black-shoe Kool-Aid laced water that has been
distilled by nuclear reactors.

In other words, they've forgotten what it's like to be a J.O.

Me, on the other hand, I left active duty as a junior O-4, so the J.O.
mindset is still fresh in my mind.

If it doesn't hurt the command, and it's a good deal for the J.O.'s... let
'em do it.

Funny how those inconsistencies STILL exist, isn't it?

--Woody

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones)

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael

Michael wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones)

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael

On my Tin Can, which was new construction, we had a full complement of nice new foul weather gear. In addition to the
regular green cloth jackets, we had a number of "Extreme foul weather" coats. These were some kind of shiny synthetic, well
padded and insulated, and had a cool looking rib running down the outside of each sleeve.

Naturally , these were much coveted and a command decision was made to issue them to officers and chiefs only. This
directive was modified down in the gear locker to be: officers, chiefs, and SK (Storekeeper) petty officers.

As you would expect, this created an immediate uproar and the original unmodified policy was quickly forced, enforced and
reinforced. The SK's hadn't really expected to get away with it anyway.

I don't think the flight gear battles are a whole lot different.

Bob McKellar, former Tin Can Pork Chop

On 10/18/03 8:14 PM, in article , "Bob
McKellar" wrote:



Michael wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.

But since my nerve has been inadvertently touched, allow me a small rant...

The black shoe Navy (and some senior Flag aviators who have forgotten what
it was like to be a JO) have gone a two different ways with flight clothing.

(a) In the past, hold the aviators down by banning them from wearing the
flight suit/jackets anywhere off base. Mighty frustrating having to change
out of the flight suit to get gas while USAF dudes were having lunch at
Burger King in theirs... Thank goodness those days are over.

(b) Currently, they have proliferated it and made it something less
"special" or unique to aviation. Not that I wear khakis very often, but
when I do, I am proud to be a "brown shoe." Nowadays, the black shoes have
the option of wearing brown shoes too (though honestly most don't for the
same reason I don't wear the black ones)

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael

On my Tin Can, which was new construction, we had a full complement of nice
new foul weather gear. In addition to the
regular green cloth jackets, we had a number of "Extreme foul weather" coats.
These were some kind of shiny synthetic, well
padded and insulated, and had a cool looking rib running down the outside of
each sleeve.

Naturally , these were much coveted and a command decision was made to issue
them to officers and chiefs only. This
directive was modified down in the gear locker to be: officers, chiefs, and SK
(Storekeeper) petty officers.

As you would expect, this created an immediate uproar and the original
unmodified policy was quickly forced, enforced and
reinforced. The SK's hadn't really expected to get away with it anyway.

I don't think the flight gear battles are a whole lot different.

Bob McKellar, former Tin Can Pork Chop


As the "chop," I'm sure you have the more "Fox News" balanced perspective
(i.e. had a good view of the issue from both sides).

Keeping in mind my only contact with the black shoe Navy was limited--an
occasional AW conference with the small boy crews in San Diego during my CVW
Strike Ops tour and the assorted bump-intos with staffers assigned to the
CVN, my view may be a bit skewed (not to mention my Neanderthal pilot-monkey
bias), but even the standard light-weight Nomex jackets were coveted by
these guys and immediately festooned with DESRON, DDG, CG, etc patches (just
like their aviator counterparts).

Kinda makes me wanna hurl.

I gotta stop responding to these posts. I feel like I'm just ranting and
beating a dead horse. Truly, folks, I don't lie awake nights freaking out
about this stuff.

--Woody

On 10/18/03 7:11 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:

"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
The "worried about" comment wasn't meant to be pointed directly at you,
Michael. In 17 years of doing this stuff, I'm a bit frustrated at the folks
who *do* make a big deal of it (for various reasons). I can understand your
curiosity factor... Which is why I made the attempt at answering the
question instead of ending the post after the top line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wasn't sure if you felt I was one
of the uptight people that worried about stuff like that.


It's cool. Without the benefit of facial expressions and voice inflection,
communication can get a bit garbled sometimes. Good points all.

SNIP

Why are they given the option of wearing brown shoes now?!


Believe it or not, it was a "color coordination" issue, and it was meant to
"unify" the communities.

BUT many of them opt for the green Nomex flight jacket (which used to
be an "aviators only item) instead of the (standard) khaki jacket.

Hmm, that's no good. The Nomex should remain an aviator only garment.

~Michael