Variations in soft field landings

Maxwell wrote:
"Sylvain" wrote in message


The POH is a little unclear. It does list "flaps up" as the last item on the
check list, but it doesn't clairify "upon" touch down.



The POH is not the place to go to attain max performance for something
like a soft or short field landing.

Newps wrote:

The POH is not the place to go to attain max performance for something
like a soft or short field landing.

I would still prefer what the POH says to any amount of advice heard during
hangar flying and/or read on internet. Moreover if an instructor says
something that contradicts the POH and/or the Airplane Flying Handbook,
that instructor would have to come up with a really good explanation if
s/he wants to see me as a customer again.

--Sylvain

Sylvain wrote:

Newps wrote:


The POH is not the place to go to attain max performance for something
like a soft or short field landing.


I would still prefer what the POH says to any amount of advice heard during
hangar flying and/or read on internet. Moreover if an instructor says
something that contradicts the POH and/or the Airplane Flying Handbook,
that instructor would have to come up with a really good explanation if
s/he wants to see me as a customer again.


You need an instructor that plays in the dirt alot. I'm not an
instructor but I will outperform any of your typical college flyboy
instructors for short field landings. That's what I'm good at, but
don't ask me to help you fly a turn around a point. The POH is general
info, you want to do it at a higher level of performance you find the
people who do it all the time. Some of them may even be instructors,
like the people in McCall, ID.

"Maxwell" wrote in message
m...
I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon
as possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down
for drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?


Yes, my mistake guy. I did mean short field landing.

On Apr 25, 5:20 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Maxwell" wrote in message

m...

I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon
as possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down
for drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

Yes, my mistake guy. I did mean short field landing.

Well that makes more sense. Different POH's recommend flaps up or not
touch the flaps. Getting the flaps up will make the landing shorter
but has caused many pilots to accidently raise the gear, so many CFIs
say don't touch anything on roll out. Personally, I raise the flaps
because I take my Mooney to real soft fields in Mexico. However, for
those that use it as an academic exercise it may be more important to
make sure your student doesn't grab the gear switch (which is hard to
stop as a CFII).

-Robert, CFII

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message oups.com...
: On Apr 25, 5:20 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
: "Maxwell" wrote in message
:
: m...
:
: I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
: landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon
: as possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down
: for drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.
:
: However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
: insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
: slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.
:
: What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
: touchdown on a soft field landing?
:
: Yes, my mistake guy. I did mean short field landing.
:
: Well that makes more sense. Different POH's recommend flaps up or not
: touch the flaps. Getting the flaps up will make the landing shorter
: but has caused many pilots to accidently raise the gear, so many CFIs
: say don't touch anything on roll out. Personally, I raise the flaps
: because I take my Mooney to real soft fields in Mexico. However, for
: those that use it as an academic exercise it may be more important to
: make sure your student doesn't grab the gear switch (which is hard to
: stop as a CFII).
:
: -Robert, CFII
:


Raising the gear will definitely shorten the landing roll.... ;-)

Blueskies wrote:

Raising the gear will definitely shorten the landing roll.... ;-)

Technically though, when on the ground, you are not raising the gear; the
gear stays just where it is, more or less, on the ground. You are however
lowering the fuselage.

:-)

--Sylvain

Sylvain wrote:
You are however
lowering the fuselage.

Has a nasty habit of raising your premiums in the process.

Thus, I submit Gnu's Law, that insurance cost is inversely proportional
to height above ground.

TheSmokingGnu

In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message



Raising the gear will definitely shorten the landing roll.... ;-)

Trouble -- it will then take full power to taxi. ;)

On Apr 25, 2:54 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
I was taught to lift the flaps immediately upon touch down on soft field
landings. My instructors stated getting more weight on the brakes as soon as
possible, would facilitate a quicker stop than leaving the flaps down for
drag, and loosing some braking power to the extra lift.

However, during my last BFR, the instructor corrected me very sharply. He
insisted you get more drag from the flaps by leaving them down until you
slowed to taxi speed, than the benefit of more weight on the brakes.

What is the general consensus of the group? Flaps up or down, after
touchdown on a soft field landing?

I think you are mixing up short field and soft field. In an FAA soft
field (which oddly, is never short) you leave the flaps down and use
no brakes.

-robert, CFII