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Why did Britain win the BoB?



 
 
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  #2  
Old October 6th 03, 07:21 AM
John Freck
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Default Why did Britain win the BoB?

Why did Britain win the BoB?

Let us imagine that we are going to be playing a complex wargame
assigned to us some 3rd or 4th year military science course. There
are 20 classmates. Each will have to write a report from either
GErmany's or Britain's perspective, and the grade will determine your
standing on your team when the game is played.
The Battle of the Atlantic is open to play too. In addition, any
commentary on any matter could boost your grade. Such as commenting
on mass communications then and now, or anything that seems intersting
and anytime relevant to military studies.

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better? And
what must the Allies do better?

To me it looks like Germany can improve a lot, and Britain only a
little bit. It is easy for the Axis team to create a shopping list of
things to do better, or more, or less, but what can be put on the
Allies list?

John Freck
  #3  
Old October 6th 03, 08:14 AM
Guy Alcala
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Default

John Freck wrote:

Why did Britain win the BoB?

Let us imagine that we are going to be playing a complex wargame
assigned to us some 3rd or 4th year military science course. There
are 20 classmates. Each will have to write a report from either
GErmany's or Britain's perspective, and the grade will determine your
standing on your team when the game is played.
The Battle of the Atlantic is open to play too. In addition, any
commentary on any matter could boost your grade. Such as commenting
on mass communications then and now, or anything that seems intersting
and anytime relevant to military studies.

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better?


Intel and analysis. Pound the CH and CHL radar stations from, say,
Bawdsey around to Ventnor, or at least Dover to Ventnor (see
Erprobungsgruppe 210 on 12 August); then, pound them some more and
continue to do so throughout. Hit Supermarine and Hawker earlier. Loose
escort. Ignore London.

In the 'maybe they could have done this if they'd put more emphasis on it'
class, speed up drop tank development and fitting (Me-109E-7). Improve
bomber defensive armament and armor.

And what must the Allies do better?


Adopt finger four instead of vic or trail. Better ASR, and (if possible)
rescue floats and provision of single-man dinghies would help with pilot
attrition. Abandon the east coast convoys for the time being. Better
camouflage and better protected dispersals on the fighter bases.
Transition the Defiant pilots to single-seat fighters, use them as
replacements or to increase fighter squadron pilot complements if
Hurricanes or Spits aren't available to re-form the squadrons on them.
Ideally an earlier debugging of the cannon would be nice, but I assume
you're limiting this to those things that were changeable in the
historical timeframe.

To me it looks like Germany can improve a lot, and Britain only a
little bit. It is easy for the Axis team to create a shopping list of
things to do better, or more, or less, but what can be put on the
Allies list?


See above.

Guy

  #4  
Old October 6th 03, 10:59 AM
Cub Driver
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The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better?


The first thing I would suggest to the German air ministry is that it
develop drop-tanks immediately for the Bf-109.
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
  #5  
Old October 6th 03, 11:51 AM
M. J. Powell
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In message , Guy Alcala
writes
John Freck wrote:

Why did Britain win the BoB?

Let us imagine that we are going to be playing a complex wargame
assigned to us some 3rd or 4th year military science course. There
are 20 classmates. Each will have to write a report from either
GErmany's or Britain's perspective, and the grade will determine your
standing on your team when the game is played.
The Battle of the Atlantic is open to play too. In addition, any
commentary on any matter could boost your grade. Such as commenting
on mass communications then and now, or anything that seems intersting
and anytime relevant to military studies.

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better?
And what must the Allies do better?


Snip

Adopt finger four instead of vic or trail. Better ASR, and (if possible)
rescue floats and provision of single-man dinghies would help with pilot
attrition. Abandon the east coast convoys for the time being. Better
camouflage and better protected dispersals on the fighter bases.
Transition the Defiant pilots to single-seat fighters, use them as
replacements or to increase fighter squadron pilot complements if
Hurricanes or Spits aren't available to re-form the squadrons on them.
Ideally an earlier debugging of the cannon would be nice, but I assume
you're limiting this to those things that were changeable in the
historical timeframe.


Improve the co-operation between 11 Group and 10 Group.

Gag Bader.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell
  #6  
Old October 6th 03, 12:17 PM
The Raven
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Posts: n/a
Default

"John Freck" wrote in message
om...
Why did Britain win the BoB?

Let us imagine that we are going to be playing a complex wargame
assigned to us some 3rd or 4th year military science course. There
are 20 classmates. Each will have to write a report from either
GErmany's or Britain's perspective, and the grade will determine your
standing on your team when the game is played.
The Battle of the Atlantic is open to play too. In addition, any
commentary on any matter could boost your grade. Such as commenting
on mass communications then and now, or anything that seems intersting
and anytime relevant to military studies.

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better? And
what must the Allies do better?

To me it looks like Germany can improve a lot, and Britain only a
little bit. It is easy for the Axis team to create a shopping list of
things to do better, or more, or less, but what can be put on the
Allies list?

John Freck


Dispersing the aircraft helped a lot, not to mention the underestimation by
the Germans of the British radar, add to that the Germans overestimating the
remaining RAF forces. Some better intelligence by the Germans may have
changed the whole thing for the British.

What would have happened if the Germans had successfully over-run England? I
imagine a bloody period followed by protracted fighting until the US decided
to lend a hand. At which time, the German forces would find themselves both
attacking the British whilst defending themselves from US attacks. If the
channel was cut for German supplies England would be retaken. The losses to
all sides would have been horrendous though.

Just my quick 2 minute thoughts on it.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.


  #7  
Old October 6th 03, 01:57 PM
Keith Willshaw
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Default


"The Raven" wrote in message
...


Dispersing the aircraft helped a lot, not to mention the underestimation

by
the Germans of the British radar, add to that the Germans overestimating

the
remaining RAF forces. Some better intelligence by the Germans may have
changed the whole thing for the British.

What would have happened if the Germans had successfully over-run England?

I
imagine a bloody period followed by protracted fighting until the US

decided
to lend a hand. At which time, the German forces would find themselves

both
attacking the British whilst defending themselves from US attacks. If the
channel was cut for German supplies England would be retaken. The losses

to
all sides would have been horrendous though.

Just my quick 2 minute thoughts on it.


A succesful invasion was never a realistic proposition.
At best a 'victory' in the BOB would have forced
the RAF to withdraw its forces to the north of London
where they were beyond escorted Luftwaffe range.

However the RAF could still have sallied forth to defend
against an invasion and the Germans simply had neither the
resources to get the invasion force across the channel or
any way of stopping the RN from chopping their force to bits.

see
http://www.flin.demon.co.uk/althist/seal1.htm#part2

Keith


  #8  
Old October 6th 03, 02:32 PM
M. J. Powell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In message , The Raven
writes
"John Freck" wrote in message
. com...
Why did Britain win the BoB?


snip

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better? And
what must the Allies do better?


snip

Dispersing the aircraft helped a lot, not to mention the underestimation by
the Germans of the British radar, add to that the Germans overestimating the
remaining RAF forces.


I thought they underestimated?

Mike
--
M.J.Powell
  #9  
Old October 6th 03, 03:00 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

However the RAF could still have sallied forth to defend
against an invasion and the Germans simply had neither the
resources to get the invasion force across the channel or
any way of stopping the RN from chopping their force to bits.


Wouldn't the Luftwaffe be a way of stopping the RN from chopping their force
to bits?


  #10  
Old October 6th 03, 03:44 PM
Keith Willshaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"M. J. Powell" wrote in message
...
In message , The Raven
writes
"John Freck" wrote in message
. com...
Why did Britain win the BoB?


snip

The setting is July 1st, 1940. What must the Axis do better? And
what must the Allies do better?


snip

Dispersing the aircraft helped a lot, not to mention the underestimation

by
the Germans of the British radar, add to that the Germans overestimating

the
remaining RAF forces.


I thought they underestimated?


Grossly underestimated

At the 3rd Sept meeting at the Hague were the decision to switch
targets to London was made Luftwaffe Intel was stating
that the RAF was down to its last 300 fighters

In reality the RAF was stronger than it had been at the
start of the battle. Moreover they failed to take into account
their own losses. Only Milch who had been around the
bases in Northern France talking to group commanders
had anything like a true picture of the situation.

Keith


 




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