robvr- How much, if any, use would stealth technology be in a visual range
engagement? BRBR

None but it will reduce detection ranges to where visual engagments will occur.
The question is whether or not these costly A/C will be committed during the
day. If the bad guys choose to fight during daylight, then the F-22s and F-35s
will also.

robvr The current doctrine/hype seems to be to shoot BVR before the target
even sees your stealthy plane, whether the target is on the ground or
in the air. I always though that was a bit like the late fifties,
early sixties magic missiles optimism. BRBR


Sure, assuming perfect conditions and perfect GCI, perfect information. Even in
training, on TACTS ranges, this doesn't happen. Don't expect it to happen in
the real thing.

If the bad guys put up hundreds of anything, some will get thru.

I flew an exercise in Egypt, we had nearly perfect GCI, in the F-14, 4 of us,
with working radars. The Egyptians put up 80 Mig 21s..I'll bet you can predict
what happened.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer