"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

Yes. It is my point that the ODP *is* included in an IFR departure
clearance unless ATC issues explicit alternate departure instructions as
part of the launch. Should ATC fail to protect for the ODP, the official
statement on the controller's operational error recert package will likely
include the sentance: "Primary cause: Controller A procedurally failed to
maintain vertical separation prior to losing lateral separation."


I agree with you. I believe that it can be clearly prudent for the pilot
to
keep ATC informed of what he intends to do, but within reason. I don't
know
that it is always reasonable for you to tell ATC that you are going to be
flying the ODP though. The controller responsible for formulating your
IFR
clearance is supposed to be a specialist in his/her airspace. He/she
should
know if an ODP is an option when you depart. If that procedure is a
threat
to another IFR aircraft, then ATC needs to eliminate the traffic threat
via
alternate instructions or not clear you. Otherwise, your IFR clearance
is
flawed (and ATC's fault).

Chip, ZTL

I spoke with both the tower and the APPCON facility following an issue I
experienced, and both held that an ODP needs to be requested by the pilot if
not issued, and will never be recommended/suggested/alluded to/etc. I think
that is a deathtrap waiting to happen, but who am I.

fwiw.