EridanMan wrote in
ups.com:

Wow, ok, I think this might almost be worth an entirely new thread
but...

"With Request".

I have heard repeatedly, from multiple instructors and fellow pilots,
that this is a major pet-peeve of ATC, and unless they are in a good
mood, almost guarantees that they will simply dismiss you as a "Timid
weekend flyer" (Not my words, please don't kill the messenger!!)

Generally I would take such advice with a grain of salt, if it weren't
for the large variety of (in my opinion) very skilled, experienced,
and professional pilots who had all provided the _EXACT_ same advice:

(and from now on, I'm paraphrasing)

They all say the same thing... "With request" is akin to "asking for
advice", I.E. "I'm not sure if I need X service or not, so I'm going
to take your airtime and ask you if your willing to give it to me...
But its not that important".

That's not their job, their job is to keep everything flowing
smoothly, not tell you whether or not you should take X or Y route...
You are the PIC, you hold the flight plan, you decide where your plane
is going. Your job is simply to inform them of your plan as clearly
and professionally as possible, and they will inform you if
circumstances require you to deviate from it. Nothing more, nothing
less.

/Paraphrase

I'll be the first to admit I'm 160 hour pilot... a rookie at best
(neophyte more like it)... But this advice comes from an ATP, the
owner of a local Aircraft Dealership, and my Instructor - none of whom
have ever met eachother, all of whom are in the 4 and 5 figures of
flight time, and the explanation given was always the same.

And, it kinda makes sense...

IMHO at least.


The preference changes with facility!

I learned to fly at SJC at the time when both SJC and OAK were ARSA
airports. At SJC, unless I wanted to stay in the pattern, I needed to call
clearance delivery before calling ground. The first time I went into
Oakland, I did the same thing as it, too, was an ARSA airport. Oakland
clearance informed me that for VFR departures, I should just call ground
directly. Here are two nearby airports with different preferences.

Again, from an old tour of Bay Approach, Bay said they prefer you give
them the whole spiel on initial call up, - ie. Bugsmasher 12345 4,500 over
LVK landing SJC with delta or Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV 1,500 climbing 4,500
VFR TVL request radar services. But they told me other facilities prefer a
short call, ie. Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV squawking VFR request.

In any area, I listen and if the frequency is very busy, I give the
short "request" form, otherwise I give the whole speil on initial call up.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)