Daddy! What did you do?!!!

"Ricky" wrote:

In my experience, Atlanta and Dallas are always hyper and very curt.

Hmmm...I did my commercial/instrument training at Corsicana, Tx.
(Navarro College) and made regular forrays to Love field (Southwest's
home). I loved the sprawling metropolis, especially at night, and the
tour of downtown Big D approaching Love was always a treat.
I was never under the impression that Dallas was hyper or curt,
although maybe they were and that's all I had experience with at the
time.


I bow to your experience. I've only flown there a few times, and always on
weekdays.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

"Doug Semler" wrote:

Huh, my memory may be off, but I seem to remember him saying that you don't
"request to make a request".

Right. Controllers hate it when you make them play 20 Questions.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

EridanMan wrote in
ups.com:

Wow, ok, I think this might almost be worth an entirely new thread
but...

"With Request".

I have heard repeatedly, from multiple instructors and fellow pilots,
that this is a major pet-peeve of ATC, and unless they are in a good
mood, almost guarantees that they will simply dismiss you as a "Timid
weekend flyer" (Not my words, please don't kill the messenger!!)

Generally I would take such advice with a grain of salt, if it weren't
for the large variety of (in my opinion) very skilled, experienced,
and professional pilots who had all provided the _EXACT_ same advice:

(and from now on, I'm paraphrasing)

They all say the same thing... "With request" is akin to "asking for
advice", I.E. "I'm not sure if I need X service or not, so I'm going
to take your airtime and ask you if your willing to give it to me...
But its not that important".

That's not their job, their job is to keep everything flowing
smoothly, not tell you whether or not you should take X or Y route...
You are the PIC, you hold the flight plan, you decide where your plane
is going. Your job is simply to inform them of your plan as clearly
and professionally as possible, and they will inform you if
circumstances require you to deviate from it. Nothing more, nothing
less.

/Paraphrase

I'll be the first to admit I'm 160 hour pilot... a rookie at best
(neophyte more like it)... But this advice comes from an ATP, the
owner of a local Aircraft Dealership, and my Instructor - none of whom
have ever met eachother, all of whom are in the 4 and 5 figures of
flight time, and the explanation given was always the same.

And, it kinda makes sense...

IMHO at least.


The preference changes with facility!

I learned to fly at SJC at the time when both SJC and OAK were ARSA
airports. At SJC, unless I wanted to stay in the pattern, I needed to call
clearance delivery before calling ground. The first time I went into
Oakland, I did the same thing as it, too, was an ARSA airport. Oakland
clearance informed me that for VFR departures, I should just call ground
directly. Here are two nearby airports with different preferences.

Again, from an old tour of Bay Approach, Bay said they prefer you give
them the whole spiel on initial call up, - ie. Bugsmasher 12345 4,500 over
LVK landing SJC with delta or Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV 1,500 climbing 4,500
VFR TVL request radar services. But they told me other facilities prefer a
short call, ie. Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV squawking VFR request.

In any area, I listen and if the frequency is very busy, I give the
short "request" form, otherwise I give the whole speil on initial call up.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

On Aug 24, 8:39 pm, "Dan Luke" wrote:
"EridanMan" wrote:
I guess I'm just wondering if there is any regular and consistent
"personality" differences between Bravo Approach regions throughout
the country,

There is.

In my experience, Atlanta and Dallas are always hyper and very curt. Houston
can be high stress too, but will sometimes be laid back and helpful.

New Orleans is, well, N' Awlins.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Dan...

my impression having driven big iron and GA aircraft in and out of a
Lot of TCA's opps Class B's is that the main determining factor is the
pilot. Sound like you know what you are doing and they assume you do.

Stutter, dont have a plan, be random in your radio work...they tend to
all get a little stiff particularly as traffic mounts.

Robert

"Luke Skywalker" wrote:

Stutter, dont have a plan, be random in your radio work...they tend to
all get a little stiff particularly as traffic mounts.

True.

Busy TRACON controllers don't have any patience with nitwits gumming up the
works. If you can't keep up, keep out.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Boy you called that right. Some 30 years ago I used to fly into Dallas Love.
There was rancher I heard a few times also inbound to DAL. He used a cow
bell to announce himself. Approach always knew who he was and would say
Roger barnburner 123( or what ever his call sign was) radar contact.
Other times I'd hear some poor fella who sounded nervous. They always got
treated poorly. Approach just did not have time to deal withsome who was
going to take up a lot of time on the frequency.


"Luke Skywalker" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 24, 8:39 pm, "Dan Luke" wrote:
"EridanMan" wrote:
I guess I'm just wondering if there is any regular and consistent
"personality" differences between Bravo Approach regions throughout
the country,

There is.

In my experience, Atlanta and Dallas are always hyper and very curt.
Houston
can be high stress too, but will sometimes be laid back and helpful.

New Orleans is, well, N' Awlins.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Dan...

my impression having driven big iron and GA aircraft in and out of a
Lot of TCA's opps Class B's is that the main determining factor is the
pilot. Sound like you know what you are doing and they assume you do.

Stutter, dont have a plan, be random in your radio work...they tend to
all get a little stiff particularly as traffic mounts.

Robert

In article ,
Marty Shapiro wrote:

Again, from an old tour of Bay Approach, Bay said they prefer you give
them the whole spiel on initial call up, - ie. Bugsmasher 12345 4,500 over
LVK landing SJC with delta or Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV 1,500 climbing 4,500
VFR TVL request radar services. But they told me other facilities prefer a
short call, ie. Bugsmasher 12345 off RHV squawking VFR request.

I've tried both the full spiel and "Norcal Approach, Bugsmasher
12345 VFR Request" for the initial call and have found that the
second form works much better. The first always ends up with 20
questions, since the controller wasn't ready to get all my details.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:19:02 GMT, "john hawkins"
wrote:

Other times I'd hear some poor fella who sounded nervous. They always got
treated poorly. Approach just did not have time to deal withsome who was
going to take up a lot of time on the frequency.


I've heard busy ground controllers do the same. G

Nervous Ned sits in parking with his engine running, ignored, while
ground hands out taxi clearance after taxi clearance. Once he makes
a coherent request, he finally gets on his way.

Hi,

In article om,
wrote:

On my initial call, I usually try to give an approach controller an
opportunity to call back when he has a break in the action by saying
something like "Approach, Grumman 12345, VFR with request".

Here in the UK, I think the recommended form is for the initial
transmission just to include the request. The conversation goes something
like:

XYZ Radar, G-ABCD request flight information service

G-CD, pass your message

G-CD is a Piper Warrior, from Heathrow to Gatwick, currently 5 miles north
of Gatwick. Request flight information service.

Apparently, the first call allows the controller to select the right colour
strip based on what your request is going to be, before you start passing
him reams of information that he isn't ready to write down.

Andy

"Steve Schneider" wrote in message ...



I did manage to take a couple of pictures of the Lance with the police cars on the ramp. You can seem them at the
bottom of this URL:

http://www.4-fs.com/new/flying/2007-08-18-P19.htm



Thanks for the post and the reality check. Things are not the same as they used to be...

Did you get any badge numbers or any opportunity to follow up about this?

I like the Lance, lit up with the pretty blue lights. ;-)