On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:12:52 +0100, Thomas Borchert wrote:

Do you see any "diplomacy" in the way the US view is presented here? Or
the slander of the German society? I sure don't.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

BTW, I didn't see any slandering. Misinformation, sure, but what comes
from you is not free of that either.


This has everything to do with the ugly face of war and little with the
relationship between Germany and the United States and their people.

I'm not sure I agree. A good part of the American people, and their
politicians for sure, have change a lot during the last two years. Some
of that change is, well, let's say, hard to understand. Oh, and I know
many Americans who agree vehemently.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

Do you really believe that 280 some mil change within 2 years after
electing a new president? If you don't like them now, you probably didn't
like them before and didn't know it. There were protests here too. But it
is no surprise the larger part of the population supports their
government. You know what Herman Goering said at the Nuernberg trials
(facing the death penalty and not having care much about the consequences
of what he said):

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater
danger."

- Holger