GAO Report: GA Security Threat

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:12:52 +0100, Thomas Borchert wrote:

Do you see any "diplomacy" in the way the US view is presented here? Or
the slander of the German society? I sure don't.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

BTW, I didn't see any slandering. Misinformation, sure, but what comes
from you is not free of that either.


This has everything to do with the ugly face of war and little with the
relationship between Germany and the United States and their people.

I'm not sure I agree. A good part of the American people, and their
politicians for sure, have change a lot during the last two years. Some
of that change is, well, let's say, hard to understand. Oh, and I know
many Americans who agree vehemently.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

Do you really believe that 280 some mil change within 2 years after
electing a new president? If you don't like them now, you probably didn't
like them before and didn't know it. There were protests here too. But it
is no surprise the larger part of the population supports their
government. You know what Herman Goering said at the Nuernberg trials
(facing the death penalty and not having care much about the consequences
of what he said):

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater
danger."

- Holger

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

One could look at the amount of business France, Russia and Germany
were doing with the Baath government in Iraq and reach a conclusion
that their objections had very little to do with anything but money.
Personally, I hope Saddam owed them all billions of dollars when he
went under.

It's kind of amusing that there are those who honestly feel that the
fact the US Vice President used to work for a military contractor who
got some business in reconstructing Iraq think that's significant, but
who can't imagine that France, Russia and Germany were influenced by
billions of dollars of commerce in their opposition to war. Go
figure...

Mark Hickey

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:22:17 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world
disagrees with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

One could look at the amount of business France, Russia and Germany were
doing with the Baath government in Iraq and reach a conclusion that
their objections had very little to do with anything but money.
Personally, I hope Saddam owed them all billions of dollars when he went
under.

It's kind of amusing that there are those who honestly feel that the
fact the US Vice President used to work for a military contractor who
got some business in reconstructing Iraq think that's significant, but
who can't imagine that France, Russia and Germany were influenced by
billions of dollars of commerce in their opposition to war. Go
figure...

Mark Hickey

The opposition to the war in Iraq went far beyond just France and Germany.
The polls seem to indicate that the majority of the people in all European
countries were opposed to the war in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2747175.stm
http://www.iht.com/articles/98398.html

Canada was quite divided, but the majority was against the war.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030329.uchre0329/BNStory/National

The vast majority of Mexicans opposed the war.

http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/archives/040403/html/mexican_anti-war_sentiment.html

--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
e-mail: khorton02(_at_)rogers(_dot_)com

"Kevin Horton" wrote in message news
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:22:17 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

"Holger Stephan" wrote:

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world
disagrees with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

One could look at the amount of business France, Russia and Germany were
doing with the Baath government in Iraq and reach a conclusion that
their objections had very little to do with anything but money.
Personally, I hope Saddam owed them all billions of dollars when he went
under.

It's kind of amusing that there are those who honestly feel that the
fact the US Vice President used to work for a military contractor who
got some business in reconstructing Iraq think that's significant, but
who can't imagine that France, Russia and Germany were influenced by
billions of dollars of commerce in their opposition to war. Go
figure...

Mark Hickey

The opposition to the war in Iraq went far beyond just France and Germany.
The polls seem to indicate that the majority of the people in all European
countries were opposed to the war in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2747175.stm
http://www.iht.com/articles/98398.html

Canada was quite divided, but the majority was against the war.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030329.uchre0329/BNStory/National

The vast majority of Mexicans opposed the war.

http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/archives/040403/html/mexican_anti-war_sentiment.html




and many here in the good ol' US of A opposed it also...

"Blueskies" wrote in message
gy.com...
"Kevin Horton" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:22:17 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

"Holger Stephan" wrote:



Canada was quite divided, but the majority was against the war.


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...29.uchre0329/B
NStory/National

The vast majority of Mexicans opposed the war.


http://www.iraqcrisisbulletin.com/ar.../mexican_anti-
war_sentiment.html




and many here in the good ol' US of A opposed it also...

Governments frequently ignore the will of the majority and act to the
advantage of that often misunderstood rich minority.
--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)