On Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:22:41 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
I disagree that the last generation of standard class racing gliders (D2, LS8, ASW28) should be allowed to race in (US) Club Class.



First (flame suit on), the idea of the ASW20 being higher performance than an ASW28, D2 or LS8 seems rather questionable to me. An LS8 won a day at Uvalde recently. That was head to head with the state of the art in flapped 15m gliders without any handicap. I highly doubt that an ASW-20 could have won a competition day in Uvalde in 15m class. Uvalde soaring conditions are as close to laboratory sailplane racing conditions as we are ever going to get. The 28, LS8 and D2 are likely vastly under-handicapped gliders in my opinion. Especially if an ASW 20 owes them time. Seriously? There should be riots happening somewhere until this is fixed. This is why handicaps stink and why utilizing the absolute narrowest possible handicap range for classes is so important (not spreading everyone around as much as possible).



These gliders (20, 8 and 28) are very modern designs. They absolutely do not belong in any class with the word Club in its title. Its sad to see that the standard class is dead in the USA, but that does not mean they should be sprinkled into as many other classes as possible. That it a bad idea in my opinion.



The whole point of the US group that pushed (for years and years) for a US Club class was to create a class which mimic's the highly successful International Club Class as much as possible. They wanted real racing in the US! They wanted assigned tasking in the US. They wanted to have enjoyable, meaningful racing for their older generation, lower performance gliders (exclusively) and select the best US pilots for the Club Class World Championships.



Perhaps we should stop "kidding ourselves" by including the word Club in what is clearly more of a "US Catch All Class" which currently ranges from 126 to D2? Our "US Catch All Class" has no hope of having assigned tasks and has almost nothing in common with the international Club Class whatsoever although that was clearly the main driver for the class being created.



We are all going to continue to endure alot of "dissatisfaction" if the word Club is left in the name of this new "class." It is a false word when compared with the current US Club Class specifications. Lets strip out the word Club and call a spade a spade OR lets refocus on what US Club Class was intended represent to the group that really founded the US Club Class by begging, kicking and screaming for years.



A D2 racing a 25 mile radius area task against a Libelle or Sarah's ASW-15? Seriously? Whats the point of that? How is that any different than Sports class? Look at the tasks they are flying this week actually. Might as well be OLC.



In my opinion the D2, 28 and LS8 belong in only 2 classes. US Modern Class (which actually benefits more from creation of the US Club Class (US Catch All Class) than US Club Class does in terms of providing real racing by removing the very low handicap gliders) and 15 Meter Class with perhaps a small handicap. 2 Classes, 2 National contests is plenty for the standard glider owners to choose from. There is no good reason to artificially include them in a third class that by definition specifically does not include them ANYWHERE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD.



Sean



My experience as a participant differs from your viewpoint. Flying a "modern" Std class glider in Club last year was a disadvantage. I could not shake the pesky LS-3A and 304 and was consistently giving them points due to the following advantage(and very good pilots).
That said, now that Club will be away from Sports stating next year, I think the range on the low performance side should move to match the low performance end of the IGC list. This will make AT tasking viable and fair.
This just in Clubbies- 2015 Club is at Hobbs with the 18's and at Wurtsboro in 2016 as a stand alone. mark your calendars.
UH/OH