Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
Guy Alcala wrote:

snip

OTOH, I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of F-4s with TERs, AIM-9
launchers _and_ ALE-40s on the I/Bs (the AIM-9 launch shoes
definitely clear the dispenser; I assume the missile tail fins would
also), so it appears that the problem isn't physical clearance,
although I suppose there might be safety limits due to the proximity
of the missile(s) motor nozzle to the pyrotechnics in the ALE-40.

The casing of the ALE-40 was streamlined, far enough back, and thick
enough that a second of flame from a rocket motor shouldn't have caused
any issues, especially since the Sidewinders were further out than the
dispensers. The box was only a foot or so tall, about six inches
through, tapered, and the carts were pretty nicely sealed (and
electrically fired).

Here's a couple of pics of the master dispenser on the left side with a
flare adapter mounted:

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/1340.html
http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/1341.html

Thanks for the links. The only photos I have of ALE-40s on a/c lack the
slanted fairing at the aft end (I assume this is the flare adapter you refer
to). I have one shot from the rear side of the pylon where you can see the
aft end (I/B side dispenser) tilted down with what's clearly the 15
compartment flare interior (the O/B side dispenser has the 30 compartment
chaff setup, and comes back level), but the cover plate bolts and aft side
don't look the same as the one in the photo. Probably just a slightly
different model of ALE-40.

Here's one of an F-4F, with live Sidewinders (but no flares loaded):

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Phantom/2992.html

You can tell there's no flares on the dispenser because the flare
adapter is visible between the top two rear fins on the closer AIM-9
(and no safety pin, either).

However, ISTR that such shots tend to be of the airshow/museum
"everything we might ever _think_ of putting on an a/c" variety, so I
don't know if such photos represent an operationally allowed loadout.
Anyone know if AIM-9s were allowed to be fired if you had
chaff/flares in the ALE-40s?

What good would a chaff/flare system be if you could only use it if you
gave up your short-range missiles?

Beats not having them at all, I guess, especially if the main threat was SA
systems and you were going to use the decoys on every mission but might never
need the AIM-9s (and then most likely on egress), but I agree it would be less
than ideal. If push came to shove, I'm sure the pilot would say 'screw it'
and fire anyway, if their were no interlocks which prevented that.

As it was, the USAF fought most or all the Vietnam War with F-4s that couldn't
carry bombs and AIM-9s at the same time, leaving the strikers to rely on
(typically) a pair of AIM-7s (and a gun if E models) if they got jumped. That
seems pretty dumb too, but we did it.

I'm pretty sure the times we took the dispensers off were for carrying

missiles with really large tail fins,

snip

Yeah, they seem to be missing when carrying GBU-15s or Walleyes, and I'm not
sure about Standards or Paveway I (non-folding fin) Mk.84s.

Guy