deleted text,

"As usual most of my words are deleted, new tactic time though, simply
lie about what has been written. Denyav has decided to go back to
a message I wrote on June 14, bypassing the JN-25 information I
posted more recently. I await with interest his retrieval of information
I sent in say 1990 as another desperate tactic to avoid actually answering.

Denyav wrote in message ...
Yes folks, if Denyav can forget about him deleting the text he can
simply pretend it did not happen. He started off passing Pearl
Harbor the movie as a source of facts and now finds the real
facts are coming out, so rewind to those simpler movie days."

Again to many words to hide the forest.

Translation no ability to reply to basic facts.

deleted text,

"I expect him to heroically delete my reply and the heroically repeat he
is repeating his same junk. Two heroic acts means another self
awarded medal."

Lets see now, I have mentioned for quite some time the failure to
change additive books in December 1941.

No,you did not ,because you knew what did it mean

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. I am still waiting for proof
about what I am supposed to have dated the McCollum memo. I
like the way Denyav assumes because he needs to hide the truth
the same applies to others.

Sigh, I keep telling you the additive book was not changed for the first
two months as for why you would have to ask the IJN, presumably an
administrative foul up.

No you never mentioned this issue before I pressed.Another indicator that you
know exactly what to hide.

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. In the mean time I am inflated
to big boogie man. I prefer get down and boogie man.

Now tell us all how this meant the allies gained the complete code
book in 2 months. Not just a list of valid code groups.

First of all the two month period refers to use of old book by Japanase after
introduction of JN25B.

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

On plain English that means the Japanase continued to blunder away JN25 B
continuously for two months.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

Of course US did not completed code recovering within two months,this work
continued.
In Nov.41 ,US was able to read 90% of JN25B coded messages.
(Ditto for Brits and Dutch)

Yes folks, Holy Writ time, no proof offered about what they could read.
By the way if it was 90% by December 1941 can you explain how this
percentage went down by April/May 1942, when the allies were trying
to figure out Midway and Coral Sea? Or that the all knowing intelligence
system missed the IJN battleships coming out at Midway and the way
the IJN carriers came into the Coral Sea? In the latter case it meant
the US carriers found themselves with the Japanese airbases in front
and the Japanese carriers behind, hence the way the tanker and
destroyer supposed to be safely in the rear were sunk first.

As of 20 April 1945 the USN found it had 35,761 additives of JN-25B7,
the version in use 1 August to 3 December 1941, with the probability
several hundred might be bad. So 70% of the additives were thought
to be known, this was upped to 47,500 by August 1945, as part of the
reworking of the messages. As of 1 December 1941 the USN thought
it knew 3,800 code group meanings.

Yes folks, the fact the IJN used the old additive book told the allies
the basic code system was still in place, 5 digit code groups with
valid numbers divisible by 3.

There was no need to worry about basic information like say the
new valid code groups were now divisible by say 2.

Just ignore the new code introduced auxiliary tables, two meanings
for the same code group, and stopped having the code groups in
alphabetical order. Just pretend the IJN radioed the code book
to the allies.

So now the lies begin. Firstly the failure to update the random number
book enabled the allies to confirm the basic system was still in place.
The valid code groups were 5 digit numbers divisible by 3. Secondly
the allies did not have all the valid random numbers, additives, used
to disguise the valid code groups, thirdly the Japanese did not put
out messages containing all 55,000 valid code group meanings in
the two months, December 1940 and January 1941.

Together with the British the US had 300 values assigned
to "B version" code groups by April 1941.

If you would like to know the exact code groups recovered it was
"Unfinished or Continuous" [i.e., a running tally]
April 1, 1941: "approximately 300 values recovered"
May 1, 1941: "approximately 400 values recovered"
June 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
July 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
August 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Sept 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Oct 1, 1941: "approximately 2400 values recovered"

"Completed during October 1941"
Nov 1, 1941: "600 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,000 values as of
this date]

"Completed during November 1941"
Dec 1, 1941: "800 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,800 values as of
this date]

"Unfinished or continuous"
Jan 1, 1942: "Approximately 6,180 values recovered"

Remembering some previously assigned values could be changed
by later discoveries.

So by the end of December 1941 the allied thought they had around 7%
of the code book recovered.

BTW you did not even need complete code book to read the most of
messages. I am pretty sure that you are also aware what Safford
asserted in 1941,but you did and wont mention in any of your
messages.Lets refresh your memory:

This is wonderful, I am supposed to know all about everything and
every document in existence on JN-25. This is not to flatter me of
course, but rather to manufacture another sinister hider of the
truth. Quick, award new medal for creating a new boogie man.

Yes folks, remember JN-25 was in effect a language, and that like
all languages most of the talk is in a small subset of the total words
available. Just do not mention the unusual words were the things
that were used for the messages the conspiracy wants to have
decoded in real time.

"A large JN25 code as many as 55000 values.But in actual practice,
such was the streoteyped nature of the text ,7000 recoveries permitted
almost complete decyrption,and many pattern messages could be
read practically entire with as few as 1500 meanings"
(History of OP-20-GYP1,NSA)


We have moved away from using Pearl Harbor the movie as a
source and now it seems we have moved onto carefully selected
excerpts from US government documents.

By the way the assertion above is Captain Safford wrote the words,
as opposed to the document being written in around 1944, not by
Safford. It also ignores the conclusion of the paper, JN-25 decryption
played no part in Pearl Harbor and all the reasons why. You see
the problem is the usual one, the really important messages were
the non standard ones.

By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the spelling errors though. Stand by for
the Martian involvement in the attack if the web site can be found.

Oh yes, "nothing to report" is a pattern message. Special orders
for unique operations are very non pattern using uncommon code
groups.

A fundamental problem is knowing the random numbers being used
to disguise a given message, it does not matter how common the
code groups are if the random numbers are not known.

deleted text, rather than telling us where the "world wide" journals
from 1931 with how to crack JN-25 can be found.

"Translation no proof brought forward, just a wishful thinking.

Oh yes, the fact there is said to be a theoretical way to crack a
system is supposed to equal the system was cracked, silly isn't it?"

The idea the Japanese might improve the system is dismissed.

They indeed improved it but they committed one of the most stupit
acts of WWII during the process of improvement and they blundered
away the improved system.

Ah yes the IJN improved the system but just keep up the claim
it was the same as US systems from years ago, which come
with "how to crack the code in 5 minutes" instructions.

imple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.


deleted text,

"And remember the IJN had more than 1 code in service, as
did the IJA, but just pretend Churchill's first quote has an
extra line with JN-25B in it."

So Churchill lied on one page and told the truth on another page,
(Your truth of Course).

Yes folks, I just love the conspiracy claims, they require the truth
bringer to be liar and vice versa.

You mean Yamamoto's letters to his staff were sent in JN-25B?
The couriered messages were in JN-25B?

This is really funny.

Couriered messages?

By the way folks, the IJN should know what it sent by radio and
what it couriered, but do not worry, just assume the IJN is totally
composed of liars. Ignore the fact the text of the wonder key
message comes from post war interrogations.

Did you tell Yamamato that JN25 B broken?

Yes folks apparently everybody transmits everything by radio unless
they are told the code is broken. This joins the claim made one time
that the Japanese Post Office would not sent coded IJN messages.
It was an attempt to try and wish away the telegraph and courier
links to the fleet before it sailed. By the way the Japanese Post
Office was willing to send coded messages for non Japanese agencies.

They all were radioed messages.

Note the Holy Writ no proof statement.

By the way folks, the IJN should know what it sent by radio and
what it couriered, but do not worry, just assume the IJN is totally
composed of liars.

Just ignore navies knew it was a good idea to minimise radio
traffic, for that matter as did air forces and armies. No need
to be told the code might be broken. The German army I think
has the slogan all signals traffic is high treason.

None of the messages found in the "Pre-Pearl Harbor Japanese Naval
Dispatches" file mention Pearl Harbor by name. (This file is found in
National Archives at College Park, RG 38, Crane Files, CNSG 5830/115; most
of the messages have also have been reprinted in "Pearl Harbor Revisited:
United States Navy Communications Intelligence, 1924-1941," an unclassified
monograph published by the National Security Agency in 1994.)"

deleted text,

"The USN went back in 1945/46 and broke out as many of the pre war
messages as it could to see what they could have told. One of the
favourite tricks is to claim the 1946 dates are faked."

Quite correct,but you again forgat to mention WHY the NONE of mentioned
Pre-Pearl Harbor messages are available in College Park.

Lets refresh your memory again:
Does almost three dozen withdrawal notices issued by NSA after the release of
"Days of Deceipt" remind you something?

Ah yes, Stinnett was in such trouble, he needed to make all sorts
of claims about what could be found in the documents, I presume
since no proof has been provided of these withdrawal notices we
are being treated to another Holy Writ moment.

What I really love is the way the claim the documents are being
suppressed but Denyav knows what they are, apparently JN-25
intercepts. Who needs research when such psychic powers
exist. Hence the Holy Writ moments.

Persons who claim that they are not available in College Park,must also tell
why they are being withdrawn by NSA.

This is good the person who is claiming the documents are
not available must now tell us why. Denyav, please tell us
why and provide references for the notices.

Simple really, fail to mention Churchill noted what the allies
had read they put into the public arena in 1946. Otherwise
the conspiracy requires Churchill to be alternatively the truth
bringer and telling lies.

And remember the IJN had more than 1 code in service, as
did the IJA, but just pretend Churchill's first quote has an
extra line with JN-25B in it.

Hard to break JN25B code is an urban legend created in Washington
D.C.to cover treason.

Translation telling lies about JN-25 is an attempt to cover someone's
inability to cope with reality.

Yes change the subject time. Try and defend the first Churchill
quote and wish away the second.

Well, the current custodians of Pearl Harbor conspiracy seemingly are not as
honest as Churchill or Stimson,they at least honestly admitted it, or as caring
as FDR,he did not inform Honululu about attack and made it happen,but he
secretly contacted Red Cross before attack and told them to get prepared for
attack,I would call him a really caring President.

Yes folks, start off with the idea Churchill would apparently confess
to a conspiracy (no one noticed of course until the truth bringers
appeared to reinterpret the text). Then find anything the US did
to prepare for war as proof of a conspiracy.

Imagine that, expecting war, see Stimson, and then doing something
stupid like starting to put medical supplies in place. Of course the
stockpiles of medical supplies in US west coast ports are presumably
proof the Japanese intended to sail onto America after the attack, right?

By the way Hawaiian medical resources were being increased in 1940,
the Hawaiian Red Cross started war preparations in March 1941.

http://hml.org/mmhc/exhibits/ww2hml/

"Chartered as a member of the American Red Cross in 1917, the
Hawaii chapter began preparations for war in Hawaii in March 1941.
In April, the chapter cooperated with the Major Disaster Council of
Honolulu to coordinate the resources of the city with residents, firms,
agencies and organizations to meet any major disaster or
emergency. The plans of the Red Cross were laid primarily with a
view to air attack by Japan, which might be directed against the city
as well as military installations. The possibility of bombardment was
considered, as well as invasion, and its effect on the civilian population."

You see folks, conspiracy land would have the Red Cross must have
known, after all there they were preparing for air raids. Note that in
March 1941 the IJN attack was still in the is it possible discussion
phase between senior leaders.

Simple really, look for people preparing for war and announce they
must have known what was coming, the specific attacks, not the
war as a whole. Drag the Red Cross leadership into the conspiracy claims.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves.In spite of risk involved
,however,in letting Japanase to fire the first shot,we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanase be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson ,The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and attacks
on US shipping were not enough for first shot honours? By the way the
above is apparently proof Stimson is admitting to allowing the Pearl
Harbor attack, as opposed to admitting he was not going to allow the
US to start shooting first.

Remember the isolationists, plus those that opposed FDR? The US
was a democracy, people actually differed from the government and
were allowed to. Such people were against the government starting
a war without congressional approval at least.

By the way "Next Monday" for someone writing on 25 November 1941
is 1 December 1941. Amazing how FDR knew the Japanese were
going to attack on 30 November 1941, the day after the 29 November
deadline the Japanese had set. Oh that's right, throw away all the
predictions that were incorrect and only ever mention the ones that
were correct, conspiracies need such help.

there is lots of deleted text but I will hold off this time. See previous
posts if interested.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.