Arie Kazachin wrote:
In message -
(Jack White) writes:


[snip]

I also did do a google search to find out what kind of kill ratios
Soviet Pilots had against the Israelis when Soviet pilots flew for
Arab Air Forces, but I didn't find anything.

0-5 (that is, 5-0 to IAF), on July 30 1970, the only event of IAF
engaging Soviet pilots (at least the only declassifyed event).



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The IDF intelegence deny that happened as the CIA asked them not to disclose
it. The world was afraid that Nixon had gone off the deep end and would use
SAC Bombers already airborn 24 hours a day and fire the misiles in the Silos
at the Russians as he warned them he would if they did what you say. There
is no declasified information on Russian Pilots flying missions for the Arab
side to this day. There are of course the rhumors that it happened but no
IAF pilot, no Arab Pilot, and no Soviet Pilot has come forward about such to
this day. Stop inventing stories and reporting unprovable things. Bottom
line in both those wars the Arabs lost their Airforce Capabilty to fight
while IAF turned to ground support missions only at the end. And on the
ground things got worse. The Syrians in one Air Strike which every IAF
Plane returned safely home totally unchallanged accept for manually aimed
anti-aircraft-fire from Cira WWII heavy calaber machine guns on turrets,
destroyed the Syrian Equivolent of the War Room/Pentagon with every military
man worth a damn in planing a stratidgy. Where they got into the airspace
over the city was where they had taken out the two SAM Batteries. The
Soviets built the air defense to have overlapping kill zones. I.e., there
are 5 batteries A B C D E . A overlaps the kill zone of B, B
of A and C, C of B and D and D of C and E, E of D.

Take out B and C and you have a larger gap in between the kill zones.
Mission to take out the threat is succesfull as the only important targets
that they protect (anything inside Damascus) is worth risking anything to
take out. The ones further south could be flown around, the mobile units are
too hard to find and hit so left alone usually till they set up and become a
target. But they can usually only fire one and then have to be reloaded
(about an hour long proceedure). Israel tended to ignore them and go for
strategic targets and only took on the SAMS in that war when they were in
the way of that. Israel today makes a air-to-surface missile, once a radar
source is turned on, not even "painting" them it can be fired from about 20
miles out and it will even if they shut down all power hit the mark it is
totally locked in and it flies at low to the ground altitudes to boot. It
makes the US HARM systems old fasioned in that they need to have it paint an
aircraft to lock on. Missiles with HARM systems have been known to take out
the battery after the plane is shot down already. Once a plane is
"painted" the SAM can be fired at will. It takes no countdown no delay is
needed it takes off if they turn off all safeties and push the button. They
arm in flight in about 10 seconds after launch though that safety can be
disabled and they could launch a fully armed SAM ready to explode, the
danger of that is an accidental explosion could then take out the SAM
Launcher and even the command trailer or bunker.

You are totally streching, the Soviets were thought to have flown not during
the Yom Kippur War but for Egypt in the six day war, that according to the
Liberty croud here, that their mission was to listen for proof of Soviet
Envolvement. It is known that Israeli MTBs did face down a Soviet Capital
Ship (Destroyer) when they were fighting to open up the straights. The
Israeli Gun Boats fired accross the Bow of the Soviet ship which did come to
a full stop, signal it would leave the war zone, turned around and left.
Yes it would outclass the smaller but faster and more manuverable MTBs. But
one hit from a Torpedo and their vessal would at best limp home at worst be
sent to the bottom with all hands. A destroyer is not built to take a
torpedo hit and survive. It would just take one good shot and they would go
down fast. A destroyer hit, goes down within a few minutes at best. US
sub-comamanders learned that trick to use against the Japanese Destroyers
when they were held down to long. They would set up a bow shot on one of
the passes and fire all their tubes. It only took one to hit and the spread
insured it would happen. Usually by the time they could then blow thier
ballest and surface the Destroyer was settling on the bottom. Soviets
designed subs for anti sub use. Destroyers were mostly in the even of an
attack on a task group of ships expendable ment to take the hit and sink.
Only two navys in existance care about their sailors surviving. That is the
USA and the British. The Isreali navy accepts that it does not have a large
enough presensce at sea, MTBs know in any real fight they will be considered
expendable if needbe.



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