"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
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If you are just receiving vectors on a random route, then you cannot
descend until you are on a "hard, black line". However, in the situation
being discussed, if it is not the specific "radar vectors to final" or a
radar approach, then the AIM states that: "For this purpose, the procedure
turn of a published IAP shall *NOT* be considered a segment of that IAP
until the aircraft reaches the initial fix or navigation facility upon
which the procedure turn is predicated."

There's still something that's confusing me. Immediately prior to the
sentence you quote (5-4-7b), the AIM says "for aircraft operating on
unpublished routes or while being radar vectored, ATC will, except when
conducting a radar approach, issue an IFR approach clearance only after the
aircraft is established on a segment of a published route or IAP, or assign
an altitude to maintain until the aircraft is established on a segment of a
published route or instrument approach procedure".

If you're being radar vectored and you're then issued an IFR approach
clearance, doesn't that constitute a radar approach? If so, what does it
mean in that situation to say "except when conducting a radar approach"? And
doesn't the requirement for an altitude-until-established (if you're not
already on a published segment) apply during a radar approach? So why the
"exception"?

The example that the AIM then cites exacerbates the confusion. The clearance
is "maintain 2000 until established on the localizer", but the subsequent
note suggests that the interim altitude is to be maintained until
established on a published segment, not just on the localizer.

--Gary