Engine failure on final

Ron Garret wrote:

What
should you do if you lose your engine just after turning base to final?

That's going to depend on the type of landing I was planning to make. With a
normal landing, I won't have power on at that point, so let's assume I'm
dragging it in for a short field landing. Or maybe I just screwed up and I have
power on 'cause I'm a little low. If I've got flaps down, up they come. I will
lower or raise the nose as necessary to hit 83 mph (best glide). I'll reduce
that speed when I flare.

Then I will hit the cheapest and softest thing out there as slowly as I can.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out. Fly the
pattern so you can make the runway from any point on downwind, base,
or final, if the engine quits.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote:

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out.

That would be short final distance. At normal approach speeds and descent rates,
you should be about 200' AGL at 1/4 mile out.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out. Fly the
pattern so you can make the runway from any point on downwind, base,
or final, if the engine quits.

vince norris

Doesn't 500' AGL at 1/4 mile equal a 3 degree glideslope?
(6076 / 4) / 500 = 3.038

You don't think you'd hit pavement from 1/4 mile out at 500' AGL?

Do you consider 1/4 mile out turning base to final a "bomber pattern."

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

Ron Garret wrote:

The discussion about cutting power on final reminded me of something
I've been puzzled about for some time now.

If you fly final with some amount of power (which I gather most people
do -- I always have) that seems to guarantee that if you lose your
engine on final you will land short, and there's pretty much nothing you
can do about it. Is that true? Or have I missed something? What
should you do if you lose your engine just after turning base to final?

Is that true? Have you missed something? Yes, lots!

0. Airspeed! Best place to land! (Rmember ABC)
1. Raise flaps
2. Prop low RPM
3. Raise gear
4. Then quickly run through obvious engine stuff - don't forget to pump the
primer

Of course, 1-4 apply if you think you're not going to make a runway.

Hilton

Yes, that's true, and it's why the Old Timers taught power-off
landings, and it's why I fly them routinely.

(To tell the truth, I also like the feeling of whooshing down without
that engine blatting away. Perhaps I was a glider pilot in another
life.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

Dan, when I was flying those Cubs at your place.. I was taught that in
winter it is best to keep some power up.. letting it idle would cool those
cylinders and the spark could go out.. but a J-3 should never fly a pattern
outside of power off glide anyway. I've seen the spark go out when idling on
the ground in cold weather.

BT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:58:29 -0600, David Gunter
wrote:

So what do you do when you are on 1/4-mile final and you spot a coyote
or two playing around in the middle of the runway?

I'd put on power and go around. I didn't say I switched the engine
off, only that I went to idle when abreast the landing spot.

We have some (a few) coyotes in SE New Hampshire. When I first saw
them, on the ice in the moonlight, I thought they were wolves, one
blonde and one dark. Gorgeous animals. Took my breath away.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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the blog: www.danford.net

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:02:10 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

Dan, when I was flying those Cubs at your place.. I was taught that in
winter it is best to keep some power up.. letting it idle would cool those
cylinders and the spark could go out.. but a J-3 should never fly a pattern
outside of power off glide anyway. I've seen the spark go out when idling on
the ground in cold weather.

When 80 octane became impossible to get, the airport got STCs for the
Cubs and brought in mogas from a supplier in Maine (no MBTE or
alcohol). By coincidence or not, we experienced a rash of engine
quitting in cold weather. Generally of course this was on the ground,
but even that can be awkward if it's at another airport--nobody wants
to be involved with propping a Cub any longer. But it happened to an
instructor while doing stall training with a student, very bad. (He
started the engine again by diving the Cub.)

So the rule came in: we can't rent the planes unless the thermometer
is over 20 degrees. (They also pulled the STCs and placarded the Cubs
for 100LL only. There's one school of thought that holds that this was
less because of engines quitting than because one instructor didn't
like the smell of mogas.)

Anyhow, it's very unlikely that an engine will quit in the pattern,
until you flare. That's my conclusion from that winter's flying. (That
is: quit because it's at idle and not at 1500 rpm.)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

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Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

On 21 Jan 2005 11:46:20 -0800, "Michael"
wrote:

Many instructors teach power-off patterns (idle abeam the numbers). I
teach it too, but not as a normal procedure. It's simply not practical
most of the time (due to traffic).

This of course is the whole point. Power-off landings are the sensible
thing to do, but traffic at some airports makes them unwise. I don't
know if it's "most of the time"; certainly it's very seldom that I
encounter heavy traffic.

I almost always fly power-off from the time I am abreast my landing
spot, and that's fine at the airports I inhabit. I am almost never in
the pattern with another aircraft--and if there is, it's usually
another Cub. If there is a plane on the runway when I am in the
pattern, I reckon it a busy day; if two, a very busy day.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message news:jHlId.4912$hu.3754@fed1read01...
"vincent p. norris" wrote in message ...
I typically pull the throttle all the way back to idle about 1/4 mile
out, Cessna 172.

I suggest that you should not be on final 1/4 mile out. Fly the
pattern so you can make the runway from any point on downwind, base,
or final, if the engine quits.

vince norris

Doesn't 500' AGL at 1/4 mile equal a 3 degree glideslope?
(6076 / 4) / 500 = 3.038

You don't think you'd hit pavement from 1/4 mile out at 500' AGL?

Do you consider 1/4 mile out turning base to final a "bomber pattern."

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ



You can make the runway on a 3° glideslope when deadstick?