Oshkosh gate admission on Sunday 24th?

John Ammeter wrote:
I wasn't aware that Arlington had been paying those
bills....

Warbirds have been getting their bills (fuel, oil, meals, lodging, cars)
paid by flyin hosts for years as they are deemed to be the big draw gate
from the non-aviation people.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message ...
Interesting Points Jim!
I think you have hit the nail on the head for the reason alot of folks are getting turned off by the EAA. I know
when I pick up a mag about Experimentals I want to see how-to's .....not the buy this 40G kit and paint by numbers.
But a tradesman sharing his knowledge for people willing to learn . I want to read about Homebuilt aircraft and not
the latest gadget from Cirrus.

Are you a tradesman willing to write an article? Finding folks with the knowledge is tough; finding ones willing to
write alo is tougher!

As for the warbirds, I think maybe they do have a place because of the lack of available parts. But shouldn't the
main topic of the warbirds be"How we had to fab our own replacement parts?" , instead of the WOW just look at the
pretty old fighter? I don't mind restoration projects, because Lord knows sometimes as much goes into them as building
a plane. Alot of times building a plane is exactly what you are doing!

I don't recall the last time I saw an article in Sport Aviation about a specific warbird, let alone about a restoration
of one. There have been a number of articles about exhibition class experimantal aircraft; bought and paid for by the
owner with very little detail about the actual buid - as you say the WOW factor...

But sometimes when I have read the EAA mags it seems there is more about piloting then building. I think real
homebuilders get just as much enjoyment out of the building process as they do the flying. The flying is the reward
for the fun of labor and effort in building.

There are quite a few articles these days about welding, structural design, electrical connections. Not a whole lot of
meat to them tho'. I think a multi issue build along sort of articlee would be good...

I know liability and all that would not let it happen , but wouldn't it be great if the EAA mags would have
articles about building a homebuilt with the plans as well, like the old MI mags used to do? That would be
HOMEBUILDING!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


Interesting comment about the liability issue. I suppose they to try not to be too specific because some will most
likely try and come along and say "That's what Sport Aviation said to do!"

Dan D...

Hey Dan,
Well I am not much of a writer, but I am willing to help anyone who asks
for it as far as my skill as a metalsmith. I think to be able to write for
the mag , one should be able to write better than myself. But if asked I
would probably give it a try.
And yep the whole liability thing BLOWS! It would really be nice to have
a homebuilt airplane covered from the plans thru the building process.
Drawings right there in the mag!!! Wouldn't that get a new person interested
if he saw all that in an issue?
To tell the truth I do not recall the last article I read of a warplane
either, because I wouldn't read it My warplane remarks pertained mostly
to the warplanes at EAA events and such,...just the WOW factor! I'd much
rather see how they actually did the restoration in a mag ..especially if it
takes the alloted space of a Cessna story or some such. And heck, I love
seeing the old warbirds myself! But like Jim I have to think where it all
fits in to Experimental and Homebuilt aircraft.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Blueskies" wrote in message
. ..

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Interesting Points Jim!
I think you have hit the nail on the head for the reason alot of folks
are getting turned off by the EAA. I know when I pick up a mag about
Experimentals I want to see how-to's .....not the buy this 40G kit and
paint by numbers. But a tradesman sharing his knowledge for people
willing to learn . I want to read about Homebuilt aircraft and not the
latest gadget from Cirrus.

Are you a tradesman willing to write an article? Finding folks with the
knowledge is tough; finding ones willing to write alo is tougher!

As for the warbirds, I think maybe they do have a place because of the
lack of available parts. But shouldn't the main topic of the warbirds
be"How we had to fab our own replacement parts?" , instead of the WOW
just look at the pretty old fighter? I don't mind restoration projects,
because Lord knows sometimes as much goes into them as building a plane.
Alot of times building a plane is exactly what you are doing!

I don't recall the last time I saw an article in Sport Aviation about a
specific warbird, let alone about a restoration of one. There have been a
number of articles about exhibition class experimantal aircraft; bought
and paid for by the owner with very little detail about the actual buid -
as you say the WOW factor...

But sometimes when I have read the EAA mags it seems there is more
about piloting then building. I think real homebuilders get just as much
enjoyment out of the building process as they do the flying. The flying
is the reward for the fun of labor and effort in building.

There are quite a few articles these days about welding, structural
design, electrical connections. Not a whole lot of meat to them tho'. I
think a multi issue build along sort of articlee would be good...

I know liability and all that would not let it happen , but wouldn't
it be great if the EAA mags would have articles about building a
homebuilt with the plans as well, like the old MI mags used to do? That
would be HOMEBUILDING!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


Interesting comment about the liability issue. I suppose they to try not
to be too specific because some will most likely try and come along and
say "That's what Sport Aviation said to do!"

Dan D...

("W P Dixon" wrote)
[snip]
Well I am not much of a writer, but I am willing to help anyone who asks
for it as far as my skill as a metalsmith. I think to be able to write for
the mag , one should be able to write better than myself. But if asked I
would probably give it a try.


You know what you want to say (you have the experience) ...find someone who
will help you say it. Find yourself a good editor.

With e-mail and Word Perfect, it's a snap.

Mom edits scholarly Catholic books, reference books, encyclopedias, etc. She
says she enjoys working with the professors, scholars, and other (sometimes)
brilliant researchers. Problem with many of them is - they can't write.
Punctuation? Fuhgetaboutit.

Many would-be editors cut their teeth working on small hometown newspapers,
church newsletters, etc. You should be able to find yourself a good editor
with little effort. (They love working at home ...on the side ...per page)

Good luck, let us know when you're published :-)


Montblack

Seems like that would make the editor the writer ,huh ?

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"Montblack" wrote in message
...

Mom edits scholarly Catholic books, reference books, encyclopedias, etc.
She
says she enjoys working with the professors, scholars, and other
(sometimes)
brilliant researchers. Problem with many of them is - they can't write.
Punctuation? Fuhgetaboutit.

Many would-be editors cut their teeth working on small hometown
newspapers,
church newsletters, etc. You should be able to find yourself a good editor
with little effort. (They love working at home ...on the side ...per page)

Good luck, let us know when you're published :-)


Montblack

No, the writer is the one that comes up with the ideas and expresses them in
a manner that is somewhat understandable. The editor puts them into a form
that is consistent with style, grammar, and punctuation.

Both are absolutely necessary to the process; if you can find both of them
in one individual, you've got a rare bird indeed.

Jim


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Seems like that would make the editor the writer ,huh ?

That's a question that I've been mentally rasslin' with for a few years
now. Who **is** the reason for the EAA? Is it JUST Experimentals as the
name of the organization implies? Are the warbirds a part of it only
because the founder of EAA flew warbirds or are they an intrinsic part of
it due to the nature of keeping a beast flying for which there are no
readily available parts?

Jim, as you know, I tend to get emotional about EAA. I love the
organization with all my heart, but would gut parts of it with my bare
hands, if I could.

Without EAA it's doubtful that my life would have taken the turn(s) it
has -- all of them good. I've attended the fly-in for 23 consecutive years,
have visited the museum often, use their website weekly, read their email
updates every couple of days, and have belonged to two local chapters.

When I was a wannabe pilot (for, like, the first 35 years of my life) EAA
filled the void between "want" and "ability." I lived vicariously through
all the performers and exhibitors at OSH for all those years, and read the
magazine voraciously each month. EAA kept my dream of flight alive, when
nothing -- and no one, not even me -- believed that I would ever achieve it.
For that, I owe EAA my life -- almost literally.

On the other hand, from a business standpoint, they have repeatedly
disappointed me. They are completely inflexible with what is and isn't
allowed at the fly-in, to the detriment of their members, and what they
charge to get on the grounds prevents many small businesses from getting a
toe-hold. Their corporate side completely dissed us when we first opened,
when I contacted them about offering EAA members a discount at our aviation
theme hotel. They didn't even reply, at first -- and when they *did* reply
it was with almost complete and utter disdain. For some reason my
willingness to GIVE their members something was met with a "who gives a
****" attitude that has left a bad taste in my mouth to this day.

Although I continue to offer my fellow EAA brethren the discount, fool that
I am. :-)

Who is EAA? My God, if it had been limited to only home-builders, as some
here would suggest, I'd still be walking the streets instead of soaring in
the clouds. If the articles in Sport Aviation were all about bucking rivets
and building elevators, my interest would have faded away long ago. As
much as I love building things -- my main hobby before flying was
wood-working -- I have NO interest in spending the next 5 years of my life
in an unheated hangar every night, watching my friends flying off to their
weekend getaways. After wasting my first 35 years on the ground, looking
up, I have NO intention of spending any more time than necessary on terra
firma. Life is about flying for me, now.

So who is EAA? I suspect there are an awful lot of guys like me out there,
who love flying, owe EAA an un-repayable debt of gratitude -- yet will never
build an airplane. (And let's not forget the small -- but vocal! --
minority of women pilots out there. Mary would NEVER have learned to fly
without EAA's annual dose of Oshkosh excitement .) Should they be
excluded?

Perhaps the question isn't who is EAA, but rather, where do you want to take
it as a director? If you want EAA to grow and prosper, you're going to
have to take the "Big Tent" approach, IMHO, and welcome ALL aviation
enthusiasts. Each of us brings something to the table that can be used by
other members, whether it's extra hands at a fly-in breakfast, writing
articles for the newsletter, or the knowledge of how to install wing ribs
properly.

If, on the other hand, you want it to be exclusive -- literally -- to
homebuilders, be prepared for the organization to shrink dramatically. In
our chapter(s), only 10 - 20% of the members ever touched a tool, so the
clubhouse might get a bit lonely without the rest of us around.

Without that other 80%, could EAA support the museum? Could EAA support
Airventure? Clearly, I believe, the answer is "no" -- and I would hate to
see those two things go.

My children already dream about OSH every winter, Jim, just like we do --
and I want it to be there for them. Please be careful what you do with our
beloved organization. It's a living, breathing thing that could be easily
harmed -- or killed -- by taking the wrong approach.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay ...

I understand that absolutely and completely, which is why I asked the
question in the first place. Before I go down some road that is anathema to
an interest group(s), I wanted validation of my thought process. That is
what is happening here ... I heard some say that the reason for the
organization was "experimental", as in the first word of the name. I wanted
to understand if the majority of the lurkers and posters here thought that
was, in fact, the case. If that WAS the case, I would have thought
seriously about withdrawing from the race because I believe, as you, that
the tent should be enlarged to accomodate all who want to fit in, and not
shrink to only include those chosen few who have had the good fortune and
skills to personally build their path to the sky. I am one with Lyndon
Johnson in that he wanted everyone inside the tent [spitting] out than
outside the tent [spitting] in.

I also believe that there should be some sort of breeder reactor for new
aviation businesses -- local government calls it an "incubator". Whether
that is some reduction in the space rent for the first year of display only,
or a special section set aside for the newcomers, whatever. I remember
vividly RST's first venture into the commercial tents (yes, they WERE tents
back in those days) and knowing full well that if we didn't sell as per our
forecasts that we would be out of business before we got back home. I
further believe that to diss a business out of hand that wants to offer the
membership some sort of a special deal isn't my way of winning friends and
influencing people.

I'll post my platform in these ngs in the next couple of days.

Jim



My children already dream about OSH every winter, Jim, just like we do --
and I want it to be there for them. Please be careful what you do with
our beloved organization. It's a living, breathing thing that could be
easily harmed -- or killed -- by taking the wrong approach.

I hope that you also include the sistren

{;-)


Jim


Although I continue to offer my fellow EAA brethren the discount

Although I continue to offer my fellow EAA brethren the discount

I hope that you also include the sistren

You betcha!

I've tried to advertise a "Ladies-Free" night at the inn, but Mary keeps
taking the sign down...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"