"position & hold" going away

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

You're joking, aren't you?

No.

If a pilot can mistakenly understand "hold position" instead of
"position and hold", then it doesn't take much imagination to see that
he can also mistakenly understand "position and hold" instead of "hold
position".

Example
Pilot (waiting at holding point to some runway): Asks for something.
Tower: "Hold position!" (Because there's a plane in short final.)
Pilot: Understands "position and hold".

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

If a pilot can mistakenly understand "hold position" instead of "position
and hold", then it doesn't take much imagination to see that he can also
mistakenly understand "position and hold" instead of "hold position". Does
this take so much imagination?

Example
Pilot (waiting at holding point to some runway): Asks for something.
Tower: "Hold position!" (Because there's a plane in short final.)
Pilot: Understands "position and hold".


That may be, but we're not talking about the phrase "hold position".

"Newps" wrote in message
...
"Cessna 1234 Foxtrot, taxi to and HOLD short of two one."

Improper phraseology, there's no reason to add "and hold short of two
one."

Really? What does "Cessna 1234 Foxtrot, taxi to" mean to a pilot?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

That may be, but we're not talking about the phrase "hold position".

It's inherent to confusions that there are two phrases involved, one you
did say and one you "weren't talking about", but the other party was
thinking to hear nevertheless.

Stefan

Morgans wrote:
"Roger" wrote


Several times I've been looking at a quarter mile, or longer, line of
planes ahead and heard, Thirty Three Romeo, turn on next taxiway, hold
short for departing traffic. Expect intersection departure. When they
said cleared for departure it had the word "expedite" in there. (Do
they still do that?


So they let you jump line, so you could get off quicker? Cool!

Sometimes the big guys have in-trail separation requirements if they are going
the same direction, and they can get off a bugsmasher in the interval while
they're waiting for the required in-trail separation on the jets.

DGB

On 10 Aug 2005 12:22:09 -0700, "Paul kgyy"
wrote:

I saw an announcement on Aeronews this morning that the FAA is
proposing that the "taxi into position and hold" process used at
virtually all towered airports be discontinued.

This is really gonna work great at places like Newark, LaGuardia, and
OHare.

I've never felt comfortable sitting in "position and hold". And I've
done it many times.

My opinion is that it is much better to taxi onto the runway and kind
of sit sideways, so you can see everything.

That's so much better than thinking, "I hope no one is behind us!"

Mike Weller

"Mike Weller" wrote in message
news:1124231216.c341073bb004b05a4f8ce94bd50ab494@o nlynews...

I've never felt comfortable sitting in "position and hold". And I've
done it many times.

My opinion is that it is much better to taxi onto the runway and kind
of sit sideways, so you can see everything.

That's so much better than thinking, "I hope no one is behind us!"


The purpose of P&H is to expedite the flow of traffic. Sitting kind of
sideways delays your departure.

In article et,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mike Weller" wrote in message
news:1124231216.c341073bb004b05a4f8ce94bd50ab494@ onlynews...

I've never felt comfortable sitting in "position and hold". And I've
done it many times.
My opinion is that it is much better to taxi onto the runway and kind
of sit sideways, so you can see everything.

The purpose of P&H is to expedite the flow of traffic. Sitting kind of
sideways delays your departure.

There is sideways 90 degrees to the runway heading, and sideways
a few degrees off of runway heading so that you have a clear view
of what might be landing on you. I always try to position the
plane so I can see behind me when given 'position and hold'. The
extra half second that it take to turn to runway heading on the
take off roll is no big deal.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:44:28 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
et::


The purpose of P&H is to expedite the flow of traffic. Sitting kind of
sideways delays your departure.

Said delay is insignificant for a 3,000 lb gross aircraft.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mike Weller" wrote in message
news:1124231216.c341073bb004b05a4f8ce94bd50ab494@o nlynews...

I've never felt comfortable sitting in "position and hold". And I've
done it many times.

My opinion is that it is much better to taxi onto the runway and kind
of sit sideways, so you can see everything.

That's so much better than thinking, "I hope no one is behind us!"



The purpose of P&H is to expedite the flow of traffic. Sitting kind of
sideways delays your departure.

Slightly, but having another airplane land on top of you delays your
departure even more.

Matt