Calls on the radio

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

Well, then you are incorrect. In the Puget Sound alone there are more
airports NOT addressed by the municipality name than that are.


What airports are in the Puget Sound?



Wrong. There is only one towered airport in Everett, WA, and yet the
tower is not addressed as "Everett Tower". In Orlando, FL, where there
are at three towered airports, one IS addressed as "Orlando". There are
so many exceptions to your "rule" than the rule you're claiming is
useless.


Huh? I said towers are usually addressed by the name of the primary
municipality served and cities having more than one towered airport are
probably the primary reason
it's "usually" and not "always". That doesn't mean that none of the towers
in those multi-tower cities will be addressed by the name of the primary
municipality served.



Your assertions are based on your own lack of knowledge and wishful
guesswork. They are hardly the product of actual information.


Actually, my assertions are based on fact, logic, and experience.



No, it won't.


That's unfortunate. It certainly should.



I have sufficient experience flying all over the US to know
what "usually" is the case. And what IS usually the case is that towered
airports are addressed by their NAME. The municipality is irrelevant,
except inasmuch as it is often used as the NAME of the airport.


That's not the case. Towers are usually addressed by the name of the
primary municipality served.



Telling someone to always use the municipality just because you believe
towered airports are usually named based on the municipality is stupid.


I didn't say that. I said towers are usually addressed by the name of the
primary municipality served. They are, check for yourself if you don't
believe me. The query sounded to me like the OP was looking for a rule of
thumb, so I gave it to him. If he was searching for hard data I'd have told
him to check the A/FD or an approach plate.



Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question. You were
either lying (which I don't believe is the case), or you were making a
suggestion as to how the original question might be answered.


I stated a fact.



I challenge you to demonstrate that in fact it is more reliable to use the
municipality name than the airport name to address the tower. All you
have to do is produce a list of every towered airport in the US, including
their name, the municipality, and the name used to address the tower and
calculate the percentage of that list in which the airport name matches
the tower address, and in which the municipality name matches the tower
address. If your rule is the correct one, then the percentage of matches
for the municipality name will be greater than the percentage of matches
for the airport name.

I'm sure that you cannot provide this data.


Of course I can. Let's start, for no particular reason whatsoever, with the
great state of Washington:


Airport City
Tower


BLI Bellingham Intl Bellingham
Bellingham
PAE Snohomish County-Paine Field Everett
Paine
MWH Grant County Intl Moses Lake
Grant County
OLM Olympia Olympia
Olympia
PSC Tri-Cities Pasco
Tri-Cities
RNT Renton Municipal Renton
Renton
SEA Seattle-Tacoma Intl Seattle
Seattle
BFI King County Intl-Boeing Field Seattle
Boeing
GEG Spokane Intl Spokane
Spokane
SFF Felts Field Spokane
Felts
TIW Tacoma Narrows Tacoma
Tacoma
ALW Walla Walla Regional Walla Walla
Walla Walla
YKM Yakima Air Terminal-McAllister Field Yakima
Yakima

By my count there are 13 civil or joint-use towered fields in Washington, 8
of the towers are addressed by the name of the primary municipality served.
I think that's 62%. Does your experience include Washington? Let's move
out to the adjacent states:


Airport City
Tower

BOI Boise Air Terminal-Gowen Field Boise
Boise
SUN Friedman Memorial Hailey
Hailey
IDA Idaho Falls Regional Idaho Falls
Idaho Falls
LWS Lewiston-Nez Perce County Lewiston
Lewiston
PIH Pocatello Regional Pocatello
Pocatello
TWF JoslinField-Magic Valley Regional Twin Falls Twin
falls
EUG Mahlon Sweet Field Eugene
Eugene
LMT Klamath Falls Intl Klamath Falls
Kingsley
MFR Rogue Valley Intl Medford
Medford
PDT Eastern Oregon Regional Pendleton
Pendleton
PDX Portland Intl Portland
Portland
HIO Portland-Hillsboro Portland
Hillsboro
TTD Portland-Troutdale Portland
Troutdale
RDM Roberts Field Redmond
Redmond
SLE McNary Field Salem
Salem

I make that 15 towers in Idaho and Oregon, 12 of which are addressed by the
name of the primary municipality served. I think that's about 80%. Does
your experience include Idaho and Oregon? Let's look at the rest of the
region:


Airport City
Tower

ASE Aspen-Pitkin County-Sardy Field Aspen
Aspen
COS City of Colorado Springs Municipal Colorado Springs Springs
DEN Denver International Denver
Denver
BJC Jeffco Denver
Jeffco
APA Centennial Denver
Centennial
FTG Front Range Denver
Front Range
EGE Eagle County Regional Eagle
Eagle
GJT Walker Field Grand
Junction Grand Junction
PUB Pueblo Memorial Pueblo
Pueblo
BIL Billings Logan Intl Billings
Billings
BZN Gallatin Field Bozeman
Bozeman
GTF Great Falls Intl Great Falls
Great Falls
HLN Helena Regional Helena
Helena
MSO Missoula Intl Missoula
Missoula
OGD Ogden-Hinckley Ogden
Ogden
SLC Salt Lake City Intl Salt Lake City
Salt Lake City
CPR Natrona County Intl Casper
Casper
CYS Cheyenne Regional Cheyenne
Cheyenne
GCC Gillette-Campbell County Gillette
Gillette
JAC Jackson Hole Jackson
Jackson

I make that 20 towers in Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming, 16 of which
are addressed by the name of the primary municipality served. I think
that's about 80%. Does your experience include these states? Let's look at
the other state you mentioned, Florida:


Airport City
Tower

BOW Bartow Municipal Bartow
Bartow
BCT Boca Raton Boca Raton
Boca Raton
DAB Daytona Beach Intl Daytona Beach
Daytona
FXE Fort Lauderdale Executive Fort Lauderdale
Executive
FLL Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood Intl Fort Lauderdale
Fort Lauderdale
RSW Southwest Florida Intl Fort Myers
Fort Myers
FMY Page Field Fort Myers
Page
FPR St. Lucie County Intl Fort Pierce
Fort Pierce
GNV Gainesville Regional Gainesville
Gainesville
HWO North Perry Hollywood
North Perry
JAX Jacksonville Intl Jacksonville
Jacksonville
VQQ Cecil Field Jacksonville
Cecil
CRG Craig Municipal Jacksonville
Craig
06FA William P. Gwinn Jupiter
Gwinn
EYW Key West Intl Key West
Key West
LAL Lakeland Linder Regional Lakeland
Lakeland
MLB Melbourne Intl Melbourne
Melbourne
MIA Miami Intl Miami
Miami
OPF Opa Locka Miami
Opa Locka
TMB Kendall-Tamiami Executive Miami
Tamiami
APF Naples Municipal Naples
Naples
EVB New Smyrna Beach Municipal New Smyrna Beach New
Smyrna
MCO Orlando Intl Orlando
Orlando
ORL Orlando Executive Orlando
Executive
ISM Kissimmee Gateway Orlando
Kissimmee
SFB Orlando Sanford Intl Orlando
Sanford
OMN Ormond Beach Municipal Ormond Beach
Ormond Beach
PFN Panama City-Bay County Intl Panama City
Panama City
PNS Pensacola Regional Pensacola
Pensacola
PMP Pompano Beach Pompano Beach
Pompano Beach
SRQ Sarasota-Bradenton Intl Sarasota/Bradenton
Sarasota/Bradenton
SGJ St. Augustine St.
Augustine St. Augustine
PIE St. Petersburg-Clearwater Intl St. Petersburg
St. Petersburg
SPG Albert Whitted St.
Petersburg Albert Whitted
SUA Witham Field Stuart
Stuart
TLH Tallahasee Regional Tallahasee
Tallahasee
TPA Tampa Intl Tampa
Tampa
TIX Space Coast Regional Titusville
Executive
VRB Vero Beach Municipal Vero Beach
Vero Beach
PBI Palm Beach Intl West Palm
Beach Palm Beach

I make that 40 towers in Florida, 24 of which are addressed by the name of
the primary municipality served. I think that's about 60%. Does your
experience include Florida? So where have you flown that it is usually the
case that towered airports are addressed by the name of the airport and not
the name of the primary municipality? It clearly isn't any of the states
you already mentioned.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news
I challenge you to demonstrate that in fact it is more reliable to use
the
municipality name than the airport name to address the tower. All you
have to do is produce a list of every towered airport in the US,
including
their name, the municipality, and the name used to address the tower and
calculate the percentage of that list in which the airport name matches
the tower address, and in which the municipality name matches the tower
address. If your rule is the correct one, then the percentage of matches
for the municipality name will be greater than the percentage of matches
for the airport name.

I'm sure that you cannot provide this data.


Of course I can. Let's start, for no particular reason whatsoever, with
the great state of Washington: [snipped]

Your analysis is flawed. You are answering the question you'd prefer to
answer, not the one that was put to you.

The point is not how often the tower is addressed using the name of the
municipality, but rather that figure compared to how often the tower is
addressed using the name of the airport itself. If you'd bothered to read
my post, you would have seen that was the point. I've quoted the relevant
text from my post, as quoted in YOUR post, so that you can more easily see
what you missed.

Further, you have at least one error in your list: Tacoma Narrows Airport is
addressed as "Tacoma Narrows Tower", not "Tacoma Tower" (and when the tower
closes, it's "Tacoma Narrows Traffic"...often it's shortened by pilots to
just "Narrows"). That puts the Washington State number at practically
50/50, hardly enough to justify "usually", even if that was the challenge
that I made to you. Which it was not.

There are probably other errors in your data as well, but I'm confident that
if you bother to go back and perform the analysis I actually challenged you
to perform, you'll find that using the airport name provides the right
answer more often than using the municipality name.

Pete

Considering that it is unlikely that there is a nearby tower assigned the
same frequency, anything you say on the Monroe County/Bloomington tower
frequency will be heard by the folks you want to contact. IOW, it's the
frequency that makes the difference, not the words.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE

"Pascal" wrote in message
...
Hello,

This might have been brought up in the newsgroup before but I couldn't
find anything about it.

When going to a new airport, the AD would have sometimes something like :
Monroe County Airport, Bloomington, IN

What call should I do ?
Monroe County tower, Cessna XXXX ...
or
Bloomington tower, Cessna XXXX ...

Usually if I listen to what's being said on the frequency before I talk I
could figure it out, but sometimes some airports don't have that much
traffic and it's a little harder to know what is the proper thing to say.


Thanks

I was up at Leadville (LXV) a couple week ago and kept hearing calls that
were somewhat unintelligible, but the FBO staff & I were convinced
they were calling Craig and not Leadville. And we kept hearing these
calls. Still convinced they were calling Craig. Both airports have the same
UNICOM frequency and but are about 100 nm apart. About 15 min. later
a twin lands. They were calling "Lake County Airport". Now, that's the
"official" name but I've never heard anyone use it and neither did
anyone at the FBO! It's always "Leadville".

You can spot a flatlander 10nm vis away, I guess.

Bob Noel wrote:

Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
You'll see:

CITY NAME
Airport Name (Alternate Name)

It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

I agree with Bob and a number of other posters that you should be
looking at the A/FD at flight planning time. You do flight plan, right?

Hm....let's see if "municipality name" v "airport name" works.

BJC. If you call "Boulder Tower" or "Broomfield Tower" you'll either
get ignored or laughed at. Boulder Airport doesn't have a tower, and
BJC is referred to as "Jeffco".

APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
there for ...um...30 years or so?

FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
talking about.

My favorite is GXY. Greely. Greel Weld. Weld County. You can hear
all three in the space of 60 seconds.

"Blanche Cohen" wrote in message news:eaimld$fin3

APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
there for ...um...30 years or so?

Longer. The Arapahoe County Airport (as it was then known) was well
established and had been in operation for some time [afaik] when I learned
to fly at BKF some 35 years ago.


FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
talking about.

Blanche, let me ask you about Front Range, and the area there, if I may.
Before I started learning to fly at Buckley, I had my very first small
airplane ride at a little airport called Sky Ranch, which was right in the
Watkins area, a bit east of BKF and north of US-6, as I recall, but it may
have been north of I-70. Is that the same place that has become Front
Range, or is it entirely different? Also, I seem to recall that E 6th Ave
coming out of Lowry toward Buckley was US-6, and that it continued, arrow
straight, eastward past Buckley well out into the prairie near Strasbourg
where it merged and became colocated with I-70. Looking at Google just now
I see a road configuration far different than what I remember. I know there
has been massive eastward development, and both I-225 and CO-470 have been
built (I-225 was just starting in the mid 70s) Is it just me (Who IS that
old guy in the picture?!?!), or have the roads really been shifted around
that much? Thanks.

Jon Woellhof, jump in here if you can -- ....................

John Gaquin asked about Sky Ranch Airport near Denver, Colorado.

Hi, John.

According to the database at
http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/CO%20R1%20A-H.htm
Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at
39°45'30" by 104°44'45". That puts it right where the old hangar a half mile
NE of the Univair building now is. I think the hangar still has a sign on it
that says Sky Ranch. The hangar is 2.1 miles NW of the I-70 C-470
intersection and about 3.5 miles NNE of Buckley (KBKF). It's 7.7 miles WNW
of Watkins.

Front Range (KFTG) is about 3 miles NE of Watkins.

Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building is
a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was it
when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think. And would you believe
that Longmont is no longer 2V2? It's now KAMR and has two 8000 foot runways.
Just kidding. Front Range has the two 8000 foor runways -- and a tower.

I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70. You might
be thinking of Quincy. It passes south of Buckley and continues east mostly
straight until it runs into a county road about 7 miles south of Strasburg.

Come out and we'll visit all the old places. We can even ride our bikes up
Mount Evans, if you want!

Jan

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message news:mO6dnci-

Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at

Thanks for the info, Jon. So, Sky Ranch, too, has disappeared. The list of
things I remember that no longer exist is becoming long and distinguished.
:-) But I did note on Google Earth that the hangar we used to keep the Aero
Club planes in at Buckley appears to still be there -- hard to believe, as
it was quite old in 1971. Perhaps they've replaced it with one that looks
similar from above. That hangar was marvelous - old wood structure, walk in
and get overwhelmed with the aromas of old dust, oil, and solvent. Just
breathing the air could create aviators! I should think that today it would
probably be declared "hazardous" by some Federal acronym.


Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building
is a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was
it when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think.

I knew that Lowry had closed. I guess that was some few years ago now.
During the time we were at Lowry and I was learning to fly, Buckley was an
ANG base. I remember that training flights from several military bases
would use BKF as an x-c destination, particularly on Fridays in winter.
Amazing how many of those aircraft developed mech write-ups on late Friday
afternoon in Denver. Equally amazing was the fact that so many of these
guys "just happened" to carry their skis along with them on x-c trips!
Hmmmmm.........


I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70.

I'm sure you're right. When I was going to Buckley, as you left Lowry on 6th
Ave, once you got past -- what? Peoria maybe? -- it was all prairie, except
for where they were just starting the I225 construction.

But I did note on Google Earth that the hangar we used to keep the Aero
Club planes in at Buckley appears to still be there

Remember, Google Earth is not real time. They could be old pictures.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message news:1Mqzg.74708

Remember, Google Earth is not real time. They could be old pictures.

Thanks, Jose, you're right. I always figure the Google sat photos to be at
least 5 years old, maybe more. But we were comparing back to early 70s.