You're Not Going To Believe This: Another Cirrus Is Down (Statesville, NC)

In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

One of the local flight schools from a
towered field teaches B-52 style approaches in their C-172's. That makes
sense for someone who is just attempting his/her first landings, but once
the student has the landing thing figured out, the instructor(s) really,
really need to retrain their students to fly a tighter pattern.

It's much easier to teach somebody the right way the first time.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:42:01 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

One of the local flight schools from a
towered field teaches B-52 style approaches in their C-172's. That makes
sense for someone who is just attempting his/her first landings, but once
the student has the landing thing figured out, the instructor(s) really,
really need to retrain their students to fly a tighter pattern.

It's much easier to teach somebody the right way the first time.

Isn't this the "stabilized approach" rubric carried to an extreme?

Don

The English Shorter Oxford dictionary lists 5 major definitions of
casual. The fifth definition is "careless; unmethodical;unconcerned;
uninterested". None of us should be that. The second definition is
"irregular; occasional". Many of us are that. I put in 100 hours a
year and yet I am a casual pilot compared to many.


Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 03:07:55 GMT, Jose
wrote in :

The casual pilot will make more errors.

Piloting is serious business. There shouldn't be any casual pilots.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

One of the local flight schools from a
towered field teaches B-52 style approaches in their C-172's. That makes
sense for someone who is just attempting his/her first landings, but once
the student has the landing thing figured out, the instructor(s) really,
really need to retrain their students to fly a tighter pattern.

It's much easier to teach somebody the right way the first time.

I totally agree. I've shunned the hard, rigid, and non-flexible approach to
flight instruction from day 1. Its fine to have an established datum for a
specific task, and indeed, all instructors should use some kind of lesson
plan as all flight schools should set specific standards and procedures, but
along with this, a good CFI has to include flexibility and common sense all
through the learning curve.
Pilots are well taught from the very beginning that the ability to work a
plan while maintaining a flexible approach to working that plan is one of
the most important assets a pilot can attain through training.
Dudley Henriques

Jose writes:

True enough, but misses the point. I was being more metaphorical than
anything, but the truth is that it is harder (requires more training,
more alertness, more attention) to fly a fighter mission in hostile
terretory in an F-111 than it does to fly in nice weather from somewhere
to somewhere near in a 172.

Generally true, but flying in intensely congested, heterogenous
civilian traffic while following a thick book full of rules and
regulations and peering at charts and screens isn't necessarily any
easier. I've heard of many former military pilots who were great at
handling their fighter aircraft but had difficulting transitioning to
the civilian world of aviation where there are many procedures and
rules to be followed and many different types of other aircraft and
pilots sharing the skies (with equal rights).

A fatal accident can still kill you in either case.

A fatal accident is guaranteed to kill you.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I am getting my 10 hours of required dual with instructor time in a SR20 so
I can rent the plane in the future. I am also doing my IFR cross country in
it. This is a fantastic aircraft, but it has alot of stuff, especially with
the dual Garmin 430s and a large display screen, than can distract you from
your first requirement, fly the plane. It has a constant speed prop that is
automatic and fixed gear, but it is a very complicated aircraft nontheless.

The high rate of crashes does concern me, so I will have to see how much I
actually use that aircraft.


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
news
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15866220.htm

It's a gray crappy day here in Charlotte, about 50 miles south of
Statesville. Rain everywhere... some places are supposed to get up to 4"
but we've just had a steady soaking rain here.

No word yet if the Cirrus was coming or going but my money is on going.
They say it crashed only 50 feet off the airport but they also say it was
wooded. I haven't been there in some years so I just can't remember the
layout. I believe the open runway is 5-23.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 03:07:55 GMT, Jose
wrote in :

The casual pilot will make more errors.

Piloting is serious business. There shouldn't be any casual pilots.



On 28 Oct 2006 14:02:37 -0700, "swag" wrote in
om:

The English Shorter Oxford dictionary lists 5 major definitions of
casual. The fifth definition is "careless; unmethodical;unconcerned;
uninterested". None of us should be that. The second definition is
"irregular; occasional". Many of us are that. I put in 100 hours a
year and yet I am a casual pilot compared to many.


The citizens who are our passengers, and those over whom we navigate,
expect pilots to exercise responsibility and prudence in addition to
skill in conducting their flight operations. When pilots are publicly
characterized as hobby pilots, or casual pilots it fails to inspire
confidence in their diligence and dedication to competent and
responsible flight operations within federal regulations in the mind
of the public. And the airman who sees himself as a hobby pilot or
casual pilot, has probably not invested adequate cogitation to
appreciate the depth of his responsibilities.

Think of how you'd personally characterize a casual motorist or a
hobby motorist compared to a thoughtful, well trained, skillful, law
abiding motorist who fully appreciates his responsibility to his
passengers and those with whom he shares the highway; then realize
that automobiles operate on highways and aircraft operated over the
heads of the public, and you'll begin to understand what I'm trying to
convey.

Below are some of my past thoughts on the subject:

Message-ID:

When I see someone refer to GA flying as a hobby, it always makes me
cringe. To me, it means that the flight training of the pilot who
wrote it failed to truly ready the airman for assuming the command
role in flight as set forth in the federal regulations.

While there is usually great emphasis on learning the technical arcana
of flying, navigating, and metrology, it would appear that the
training failed to cause the airman to fully appreciate the
responsibility a Pilot In Command assumes for the lives of those over
whom he flies and his passengers.


If the flight student's mental outlook isn't fundamentally changed as
a result of his flight training, he probably doesn't really appreciate
the depth of that responsibility. And imagine how the layman feels
when he thinks hobby-pilots are noisily traversing the "sovereign"
airspace overhead, rather than a federally certified airman who
solemnly accepts his true command responsibility for the right to
exorcize the authority granted him by his airmans certificate.


If we refer to it as recreational flying, rather than a hobby, perhaps
the lay readers of this international forum will see that we airmen
take our responsibilities more seriously than mere hobbyists.

------------------------

Message-ID:

There are those hobbies, such as rock climbing, SCUBA diving, even
sailing, that are potentially life and death matters, but they don't
demand the public to extend their trust for their participation as
does aviation.


That is why I feel it is important for airmen to act responsibly and
prudent in the air and in public.

------------------------

Message-ID:

The point I was trying to make is that commanding a flight is very
serious business whether you think it's just a relaxing leisure hobby
activity or not. Unlike most leisure hobbies (golf, tennis, stamp
collecting, ...), a PIC flying in congested airspace cannot relax his
vigil for a moment least he shirk his duty and responsibility to those
whom his flight may affect.

------------------------

Message-ID:

Flying is inherently dangerous and unforgiving. The airman who fails
to keep constant vigil on the weather, equipment and navigation will
be at peril. Flying is serious business, and needs to be addressed
from a professional perspective.


I think he should focus on this hobby


If he views flying as a hobby, he will be a hazard to himself, his
passengers and those over whom he navigates. Flying may be
recreation, but it isn't a hobby in the usual sense. An airman's
constant adherence to all regulations and safe operating and planning
practices (as he was taught) is imperative, as is an appreciation of
his responsibility to those whose trust he has accepted. It will take
time and experience for him to appreciate that responsibility.

---------------------

Message-ID:

It would appear that someone feels that it is going to be necessary to
hobble GA pilots if NASA's Small Aircraft Transportation System (SATS)
program is to succeed. While I favor SATS implementation, I see no
reason to impose additional requirements on GA pilots, so that
unqualified SATS pilots can share our airspace.


This dispatch "solution" is predicated on the erroneous assumption(s)
that GA pilots face overwhelming social pressure that influences them
to fly unsafe trips (and potential capitalistic gain). While social
pressure may have been a causing factor in the case of JFK Jr.'s last
flight, he was not a typical GA pilot; he seldom felt confident enough
to fly without an instructor aboard. I suspect that the source of his
errors was his lack of appreciation for the _dedication_ required to
be a _competent_ PIC. Assuming command of a flight is NOT a casual
matter, it is a serious undertaking with potentially grim
consequences.


Dedication and competency go hand in hand. If a pilot thinks of
aviation as a "hobby", s/he is overlooking the responsibility to
his/her passengers, and those on the ground, that a Pilot In Command
must shoulder. Becoming a competent pilot should change your life.
Because a pilot must master several arcane subjects (aircraft systems
and operation, meteorology, navigation, ATC operations,
communications, governing regulations of several codes, ...), the
mastery of any single one of which is suitable for a lifetime of
study, his/her view of life is necessarily changed by that knowledge.
If it doesn't change your attitude toward dedication to being the best
competent pilot you are able, and instill the awesome responsibility a
PIC must have toward the lives of those who may be affected by his/her
decisions, the training has failed.


A better solution would be to revise the FAA pilot training curricula,
and bring them up to date with greater emphasis on the decision making
process, safety and the required mindset to be competent Pilot In
_Command_. Currently, students' flight training focuses on the
technical aspects of controlling the aircraft, and does not
_explicitly_ emphasize the mindset required to safely _command_ a GA
flight.


It is the training process that is flawed. It will remain flawed
until the curricula are changed to teach the skills required to
_command_ a flight as well as those necessary to pilot it. That is
the place to make the changes.


If, on the other hand, your agenda is to put inexperienced people, who
lack the required mindset and knowledge of potential pitfalls, in the
role of PIC, you are doomed to failure. Piloting is a way of life,
not just a skill.


-------------------------------

Message-ID:

An airman MUST make that promise to those who have handed her
responsibility for their safety.

A pilot does NOT enjoy the freedom to indulge her emotional instincts
while plying the skies as PIC. She MUST overcome her fear, and
attempt to pilot her aircraft as competently and skillfully as the
situation permits in ALL circumstances. Any airman who fails to
appreciate this fundamental truth does not fully accept her
responsibility to those (on the ground and in the air) who have placed
their faith and trust in her for their personal safety.


There is NO room for equivocation in this matter, for an airman
derives her power to navigate the skies from those on the surface and
in the air who tacitly grant her their permission to hold their lives
in the airman's hands. An airman solemnly accepts this responsibility
to the public with the utmost of reverence, honor, and respect, or she
doesn't belong in the sky acting as PIC.


That's why piloting an aircraft is not a hobby. It may be
recreational, but an airman is NEVER permitted the luxury of relaxing
his vigilance nor responsibilities as would a hobbyist.

-------------------------------

Message-ID: #1/1

WHY FLY?


The benefits of being an Airman and experiencing flight are not all
tangible. Here are some thoughts:


The ability to navigate in the third dimension in many ways places you
above most of humanity.


The fulfillment of dreams of liberating flight brings forth a magical
feeling of accomplishment unmatched by earthly accomplishments.


Escaping the dusty little trials and tribulations on the planet's
sweltering surface, even for a brief moment, is fresh, cool therapy
beyond that available from ground-bound professionals.


The indelible feeling of exaltation while wandering among billowing
altocumulus turrets is so magical as to permanently imprint the soul
with majesty.


Vaulting a mountain range in a few short minutes to explore the clean
desert environment on the other side expands one's frame of reference,
and sphere of operation beyond his peers.


Skimming over inhospitable terrain to land at a desert oasis
(Laughlin, NV) on the Colorado River makes restorative rest and
relaxation a day trip instead of a grueling multi-day expedition.


While below you the sail boats float for 5 hours at the snail's pace
of 6 knots, you are atop the Pacific island of Catalina in only a few
minutes.


Freedom from monitoring the roadway centerline second-by-second frees
the pilot to revel in the sky's liberating realm.


The power to introduce your fellows to the delights of the sky
provides you with an ability few who walk this planet possess.


Providing your friends with photographs of their property taken from
an aerial prospective fills them with gratitude and respect.


Joining the brotherhood of Airman binds us together through shared
experiences as no other covenant is able.


Sharing the camaraderie of fellow aviators is a worldwide phenomenon.


Once the responsibility, required knowledge, and dedication transform
a person into a Pilot, s/he no longer regards life with the banal
ennui of the common man.


The pilot has experienced the Earth's geologic and cultural features
from a lofty vista that yields an insight unavailable to those
restricted to a ground-level perspective.

--------------------------

Larry Dighera schrieb:

And the airman who sees himself as a hobby pilot or
casual pilot, has probably not invested adequate cogitation to
appreciate the depth of his responsibilities.

Flying is one of my hobbies, so I can't help being a hobby pilot.
Claiming something else would just be ridiculous. Maybe you could argue
that I should call myself a sports pilot (not in the legal sense), but
since pushing around gliders on the ground is about the only sportive
part of my flying activity, this wouldn't be less ridiculous. I invested
a fair amount of cogitation, besides of time and money, into my
responsibilities as a pilot, but this doesn't change the fact that I
still am and most probably will remain a hobby pilot. I don't have the
slighest difficulty with this.

Think of how you'd personally characterize a casual motorist or a
hobby motorist compared to a thoughtful, well trained, skillful, law
abiding motorist who fully appreciates his responsibility to his
passengers and those with whom he shares the highway;

I would characterize a hobby motorist as one who drives as a hobby in
his spare time. And I would expect him to be well trained, skillful and
law abiding.

Stefan

...compared to a thoughtful, well trained, skillful, law
abiding motorist who fully appreciates his responsibility to his
passengers and those with whom he shares the highway;

Do you know any?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 14:38:50 +0100, Stefan
wrote in :

Maybe you could argue
that I should call myself a sports pilot (not in the legal sense), but
since pushing around gliders on the ground is about the only sportive
part of my flying activity

Why do you see yourself as a hobby pilot and not a recreational pilot?