How to tell my instructor to increase glidespeed with headwind?

In article ,
says...
Back to the drawing board Dunc!

bloody top poster!

--
Duncan

"Kev" wrote in
oups.com:

Eh? What he said is _exactly_ what the thread was about. I.e.
letting the instructor's misinformation slide just long enough to get
the license more easily, and then perhaps arguing the point later.

That's not how I read it - "a student being killed by his unquestioning
acceptance of misinformation from a flight instructor" is not the same as
what you said.

None of the postings in this thread suggested that the student should ACCEPT
the instructor's misinformation as being accurate.

Manic's comment is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what was advised in the thread, and
I believe it was stated in an inflammatory manner in order to entice an
argument just like this one...

"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
It amazes me that students are being advised here to accept
misinformation and inaccuracy just for a piece of paper. [...]

Are you reading the same thread as everyone else here? Where did you come
up
with this crap?

Eh? What he said is _exactly_ what the thread was about. I.e.
letting the instructor's misinformation slide just long enough to get
the license more easily, and then perhaps arguing the point later.

Only one person has suggested that. Characterizing the thread as being full
of such responses is absurd. Most correctly (IMHO) point out that not
pushing such a point is occasionally the right response, but generally is
not.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:02:09 +1300, Dave Doe wrote in
:

fly at 65kts, and you get the longest time in the air

That is incorrect. Flying at best glide speed will give you the
maximum (no wind) distance over the ground just as Vy (velocity along
the Y axis: best rate of climb) does. Flying at minimum sink speed
will give you the most time before landing just as Vx (velocity along
the X axis: best angle of climb speed) provides the maximum height in
the shortest time (regardless of wind).

Larry, you said that backwards. Best-glide speed is analogous to Vx: it
gives you the best (most positive) angle of flight. Minimum-sink speed is
analogous to Vy. It's Vy, not Vx, that gives you the maximum height in the
shortest time; Vx instead gives you the maximum height in the shortest
lateral distance. (And Vx and Vy do not refer to velocity along an x or y
axis.)

--Gary

"Nik" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
After the flight I pulled up the Glider Flying handbook online and it
says:

"...it is apparent that flying a faster airspeed as the headwind
increases will result in the greatest distance over the
ground. If this is done for the polar curves from many
gliders, a general rule of thumb is found, namely, add
half the headwind component to the best L/D for the
maximum distance."

But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

Thanks!
-Nik


Give your instructor the benefit of your background. As an instructor
for thirty years, I can say that i have learned a lot from my students. Some
of them had Mach 2+ experience and I was to solo them in a C-150.

Bet him a beer that you can outglide him under those circumstances.

Get him an introductory ride at a glider port...

Al G

O
No, because the same instructor may misinform others who do not have
the benefit of other sources of information, and someone may be
injured or killed as a result of his misinformation.

Correct the instructor if he is wrong. If this creates an obstacle to
attaining your own objectives, find another instructor. But don't
just leave him to put other students in danger.


Go take the PPL or Glider written and maybe the FOI...then you can
make comments like that.
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider & CFI wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...smack-smack-smack-smack..."

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:35:01 -0700, Jay Beckman wrote:

Of course numbnuts would proably tell him he didn't die correctly because
that's not how it happens in MSFS.

Heh That's my long term goal: to fail to die correctly.

- Andrew

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:14:42 -0800, Peter Duniho wrote:

That advice makes some sense for someone in Schiff's position.

I don't agree even there.

Others have already pointed out the benefit of educating the instructor.
In fact, if I recall that story correctly, the instructor did come away
with more knowledge than he'd before. That's a gain for all of us.

The reason I've not seen mentioned is that he [Schiff] could be sure about
something that does happen to be wrong. "Correcting" the CFI isn't just a
chance to teach the CFI something. It also confirms that the correction
is accurate.

Admittedly, after numerous corrections of the same misconception, I could
absolutely see the motivation on Schiff's part to just let it glide by
laugh. It's to his credit, I believe, that he hasn't.

- Andrew

On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:38:41 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
:

Most correctly (IMHO) point out that not pushing such a point is
occasionally the right response, but generally is not.

I don't recall anyone advising Nik to contact a FSDO inspector, and
quizzing him about the FAA's point of view on this particular issue.
That should settle the argument, but I wouldn't be too hopeful.

Dave Doe wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:02:09 +1300, Dave Doe wrote in
:

fly at 65kts, and you get the longest time in the air

That is incorrect. Flying at best glide speed will give you the
maximum (no wind) distance over the ground just as Vy (velocity along
the Y axis: best rate of climb) does. Flying at minimum sink speed
will give you the most time before landing just as Vx (velocity along
the X axis: best angle of climb speed) provides the maximum height in
the shortest time (regardless of wind).

If the best glide speed is 65kts in a C172, what is the best min. sink
speed?

According to Kerschner, best glide speed (for distance) will be
around 1.3 Vs and minimum sink speed will be around 1.1 Vs. If the
airplane stalls clean at 50 kt, the minimum sink will be 55 kt and best
glide 65 kt.
But pay attention to the calibrated/indicated airspeed chart in
the POH. Airspeed indications are usually off quite a bit near the
stall.
One could go to altitude and do some gliding at various
stabilized airspeeds and find the one with the lowest rate of descent
on the VSI.

Dan