Part 135 question

I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the guys with a
commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the right seat and
after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the aircraft.

Are there any regulations specifically precluding a pilot from doing this
or is it at the pilot's discretion?


---
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote in message
...
I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the guys with a
commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the right seat and
after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the aircraft.

Are there any regulations specifically precluding a pilot from doing this
or is it at the pilot's discretion?


---
Dallas

I'd say it violates not one but maybe two sections of Part 135.

§ 135.115 Manipulation of controls.
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the flight controls
of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part, nor may any person
manipulate the controls during such flight unless that person is-

(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified in the
aircraft; or

(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator who has the
permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the aircraft, and is
checking flight operations.



If it is one that has more than 8 passenger seats it also violates this one.


§ 135.113 Passenger occupancy of pilot seat.
No certificate holder may operate an aircraft type certificated after
October 15, 1971, that has a passenger seating configuration, excluding any
pilot seat, of more than eight seats if any person other than the pilot in
command, a second in command, a company check airman, or an authorized
representative of the Administrator, the National Transportation Safety
Board, or the United States Postal Service occupies a pilot seat.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:41:12 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

If it is one that has more than 8 passenger seats

I think the 402 has 6 passenger seats so he's not on the hook there.

Thanks.
--
Dallas

It is a violation of the FAR to allow any passenger or pilot
not employed by the company and who has passed a checkride
to even touch the controls.
§ 135.115 Manipulation of controls.
No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the
flight controls of an aircraft during flight conducted under
this part, nor may any person manipulate the controls during
such flight unless that person is-

(a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and qualified
in the aircraft; or

(b) An authorized safety representative of the Administrator
who has the permission of the pilot in command, is qualified
in the aircraft, and is checking flight operations.







"Dallas" wrote in message
...
|I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the guys
with a
| commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.
|
| I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a
commuter flight
| from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the
right seat and
| after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the
aircraft.
|
| Are there any regulations specifically precluding a pilot
from doing this
| or is it at the pilot's discretion?
|
|
| ---
| Dallas

I don't think a 402 has nine seats behind the pilots' seats
up front.

But you are correct about that being a violation too. But
even in a Bonanza or Lance, passengers can't fly.



"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...
|
| "Dallas" wrote in
message
| ...
| I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the
guys with a
| commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.
|
| I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a
commuter flight
| from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the
right seat and
| after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the
aircraft.
|
| Are there any regulations specifically precluding a
pilot from doing this
| or is it at the pilot's discretion?
|
|
| ---
| Dallas
|
| I'd say it violates not one but maybe two sections of Part
135.
|
| § 135.115 Manipulation of controls.
| No pilot in command may allow any person to manipulate the
flight controls
| of an aircraft during flight conducted under this part,
nor may any person
| manipulate the controls during such flight unless that
person is-
|
| (a) A pilot employed by the certificate holder and
qualified in the
| aircraft; or
|
| (b) An authorized safety representative of the
Administrator who has the
| permission of the pilot in command, is qualified in the
aircraft, and is
| checking flight operations.
|
|
|
| If it is one that has more than 8 passenger seats it also
violates this one.
|
|
| § 135.113 Passenger occupancy of pilot seat.
| No certificate holder may operate an aircraft type
certificated after
| October 15, 1971, that has a passenger seating
configuration, excluding any
| pilot seat, of more than eight seats if any person other
than the pilot in
| command, a second in command, a company check airman, or
an authorized
| representative of the Administrator, the National
Transportation Safety
| Board, or the United States Postal Service occupies a
pilot seat.
|
|

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas....

Does the FAA have authority over a flight operating over international
waters?

He also did not specify if he was carrying passengers. It may not have
acutally been a part 135 flight.

We used to do this a lot when transporting prisoners. When actually
transporting the prisoner we would often hire a Private pilot to ride
along as a Guard (required for our operation). The of course could not
fly while carrying the prisoners. However we often had dead head
flights where the Part 135 pilot would take off his Charter Pilot Hat
and put on his Flight Instructor Hat and give the student Dual
instruction on the deadhead portion of the flight. The PP got
inexpensive time in usually complex aircraft this way.

Brian




Dallas wrote:
I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the guys with a
commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the right seat and
after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the aircraft.

Are there any regulations specifically precluding a pilot from doing this
or is it at the pilot's discretion?


---
Dallas

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:6Llbh.10350$IW2.5393@trndny03...
"Dallas" wrote in message
...

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas....

Does the FAA have authority over a flight operating over international
waters?


They do if the plane has an N number. For that matter they have authority
over an N numbered plane over foreign soil.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
I don't think a 402 has nine seats behind the pilots' seats
up front.

But you are correct about that being a violation too. But
even in a Bonanza or Lance, passengers can't fly.




Scheduled Skyways had a couple back in the late 70's early 80's that I
really think were configured for 10 pax. But we are stretching my memory
way, way too much and they might have been 404s

In article ,
says...


I realize this is a GA group but I thought some of the guys with a
commercial ticket might be able to answer this question.

I have a friend with a PP-SEL that was coming back on a commuter flight
from the Bahamas in a Cessna 402. He managed to get the right seat and
after chatting with the pilot, he was allowed to fly the aircraft.

Are there any regulations specifically precluding a pilot from doing this


YES!
Unless they were operating under Part 91. OK, you say "communter flight",
but do you specifically know it was a part 135 operation?

GF