Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

john smith wrote:
Mr Kim's death resulting from his decision to attempt to walk out of an
area he was unfamiliar with after becoming stranded, raises some thought
provoking questions for aviators.

There is nothing unique about Kim's death - nor much to learn, IMHO. At the
same time the Kim tragedy was playing out, another Oregon wilderness
tragedy occurred when a father and son went for a 6-hour snowmobiling trip
and got caught out in the wilderness. But when searchers finally found
them, the father had died.[1] When they were first reported missing their
family reported that the "two were described as well-equipped and
knowledgeable about survival in the mountains ... were reported to be
equipped with cell phones and multifrequency radios ... the two had been
snowmobiling in the area for years."

By the way, it looks like the Kim family tragedy has gotten an entry in
Wikipedia.[3]

[1] http://www.bendweekly.com/Local-News/1317.html
[2] http://www.examiner.com/a-424637~Two...a chelor.html
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they were
underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather gear in an area
that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge less harshly.
Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can be annoying,
since you can't walk around outside as far as you planned, and the rest
of
the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you to "catch your
death";
but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub will probably cure
all
that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of incorrectly
recommended
clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe handicap!


You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

I really don't know how stores are where the Kims lived, but in southeastern
Florida you can find a good deal of cold weather gear stocked for
recreational hunters and skiers. A lot of it is excellent for a particular
purpose--but far less versatile than a novice would suppose.

The problem is that you can find about as much missinformation as
information about what you might need, under what conditions, and why. For
example, by walking out into a drizzle, I earned that my highly prized down
parka (unlike holofill) wouldn't insulate when damp--I merely had to go back
indoors, so it was only an annoyance. I've learned a little more since
then, mostly to ask more questions of more people.

However, there are two main points that I feel compelled to make:
1) Most of us have made mistakes, which could easily have killed us, and
instead received the opportunity to learn. Mr. Kim's first mistake (or
series of mistakes) appears to have been his last.
2) Simply trying to be prepared is no guarantee of being prepared, and
even being prepared is no guarantee of success. Or in fewer words: "Stuff
Happens".

Peter

I drove my family across Bear Camp Road in August of 2000. There was
still snow in the shadows on the north faces of some of the slopes.
I was driving from Medford to Gold Beach (east to west). I had only an
Oregon State Highway map for navigation. The map indicated it was a
state highway. In Ohio, a state highway means a two-lane paved road.
Leaving I-5 and driving west, the road is two-lane paved asphalt, the
ascent is shallow and the curves are wide. The farther east you drive
from I-5, the more steep the ascent and sharper the curves become. At
some point it becomes a one-lane gravel road with turnouts every couple
of miles to allow vehicles to pass. The farther west you drive from I-5,
the slower your speed becomes. Within an hour of I-5, my speed was down
to 15 mph, max. The road is not straight. It twists and curves. My wife
was making comments like, "Oh look at that!" And couldn't for fear of
going off the road.
The area between the east and west gates gets washed out/slides away and
has to be rebuilt each Spring.
You look at the map and say, "Bear Camp Road is only 50 miles across the
mountains. If I stay on Highway 199, I have to drive south to Cresent
City California, then north on Highway 101. That is longer and will take
more time."
It took me 4-and-a-half hours to drive from Medford to Gold Beach. The
locals all drive the Cresent City route.

Ron Lee wrote:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

I am looking at an Official Oregon State Highway Map (ODOT, 2003)

That road is labeled "This route closed in Winter".

There is no highway marker or number of any kind on that road. The map
legend clearly shows Interstate Highway, US Highway and State Highway
markers.

The map legend does indicate that it is a "paved road", following in
order "Interstate Highway", "Divided Highway", "Other Highway", and
above only "gravel road".

I also Have a Rand McNally Road Atlas, 2002. It has similar information.

- John Ousterhout -



john smith wrote:
I drove my family across Bear Camp Road in August of 2000. There was
still snow in the shadows on the north faces of some of the slopes.
I was driving from Medford to Gold Beach (east to west). I had only an
Oregon State Highway map for navigation. The map indicated it was a
state highway. In Ohio, a state highway means a two-lane paved road.
Leaving I-5 and driving west, the road is two-lane paved asphalt, the
ascent is shallow and the curves are wide. The farther east you drive
from I-5, the more steep the ascent and sharper the curves become. At
some point it becomes a one-lane gravel road with turnouts every couple
of miles to allow vehicles to pass. The farther west you drive from I-5,
the slower your speed becomes. Within an hour of I-5, my speed was down
to 15 mph, max. The road is not straight. It twists and curves. My wife
was making comments like, "Oh look at that!" And couldn't for fear of
going off the road.
The area between the east and west gates gets washed out/slides away and
has to be rebuilt each Spring.
You look at the map and say, "Bear Camp Road is only 50 miles across the
mountains. If I stay on Highway 199, I have to drive south to Cresent
City California, then north on Highway 101. That is longer and will take
more time."
It took me 4-and-a-half hours to drive from Medford to Gold Beach. The
locals all drive the Cresent City route.

Ron Lee wrote:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

wrote

Ok. So there's one case. I did say there's probably been a couple of
cases. This once incident you cite doesn't make leaving the
car/airplane a good idea. If anything, I think it strengthens the
advice to stay with the car... The guy lived for 60 days!! Almost
amazing that he wasn't found in that time.

But nobody ever said to not get out of the car. The point was to not leave the
protection of the car, for a walk out. I would think that you should be out
making markings with branches for air visibility. Get some gas and some pine,
and the battery or something for a point of ignition to start a quick signal
fire. A small hike on nice days to see what is around you, and what might be
used to increase survival chances, such as food, water, roads, houses, wire
right-of-ways.
--
Jim in NC

Bear with me, John... I am going from memory. I no longer have the map I
used. I do know there was no labeling about the road on the map I used.

John Ousterhout wrote:

I am looking at an Official Oregon State Highway Map (ODOT, 2003)

That road is labeled "This route closed in Winter".

There is no highway marker or number of any kind on that road. The map
legend clearly shows Interstate Highway, US Highway and State Highway
markers.

The map legend does indicate that it is a "paved road", following in
order "Interstate Highway", "Divided Highway", "Other Highway", and
above only "gravel road".

I also Have a Rand McNally Road Atlas, 2002. It has similar information.

- John Ousterhout -



john smith wrote:

I drove my family across Bear Camp Road in August of 2000. There was
still snow in the shadows on the north faces of some of the slopes.
I was driving from Medford to Gold Beach (east to west). I had only
an Oregon State Highway map for navigation. The map indicated it was
a state highway. In Ohio, a state highway means a two-lane paved
road. Leaving I-5 and driving west, the road is two-lane paved
asphalt, the ascent is shallow and the curves are wide. The farther
east you drive from I-5, the more steep the ascent and sharper the
curves become. At some point it becomes a one-lane gravel road with
turnouts every couple of miles to allow vehicles to pass. The farther
west you drive from I-5, the slower your speed becomes. Within an
hour of I-5, my speed was down to 15 mph, max. The road is not
straight. It twists and curves. My wife was making comments like, "Oh
look at that!" And couldn't for fear of going off the road.
The area between the east and west gates gets washed out/slides away
and has to be rebuilt each Spring.
You look at the map and say, "Bear Camp Road is only 50 miles across
the mountains. If I stay on Highway 199, I have to drive south to
Cresent City California, then north on Highway 101. That is longer
and will take more time."
It took me 4-and-a-half hours to drive from Medford to Gold Beach.
The locals all drive the Cresent City route.

Ron Lee wrote:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Ron Lee wrote:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?


http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat....91/Main/707603

Click on "View in Google Map"

"Peter Dohm" wrote:

2) Simply trying to be prepared is no guarantee of being prepared, and
even being prepared is no guarantee of success. Or in fewer words: "Stuff
Happens".

Peter

However, if the weather wa cold and snowy the way he was dressed and
left the vehicle was certain death unless found very quickly.

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?


http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat....91/Main/707603

Click on "View in Google Map"

Thanks. That answered a lot of questions along with knowing that they
wanted to get to the Oregon coast. What I still do not understand is
how good a road 23 is. From my mapping software, it looks like 42
(primary) then 199 (backup) are the only possible winter routes from
I-5 to the coast. Assumes that they are open in the winter of course.
23 does not appear to be a significant road.

It appears that they were on a road that should have raised a red flag
for a long time before becoming stuck. As far as they drove on the
BLM road chances are remote that Kim could have walked back to
civilization even if 23 was well travelled.

Ron Lee

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Newps wrote:

Tennis shoes, no hat or gloves. There could have been no other outcome.

Sure there could have!
He walked the wrong way.
One mile in the opposite direction was a stocked fishing lodge,
according to the reports I have been reading.


Well, it might have been 1 mile by GPS, but you can't get there from here.

Also, I may be wrong, but as I remember, Black Bar Lodge is on the South
side of the Rogue river, and Kim was on the north side. No way you're going
to cross this time of year. Black Bar is the last "outpost"(i.e. open to the
public) at the top of the wild and scenic section of the Rogue. For 14 years
I flew Walter Haas in and out of his place at Winkle Bar, Zane Grey's old
cabin, and the next lodge down from Black Bar. We used a turbo C-206 w/ a
Robertson kit to access the beautifully mowed 500' of grass next to the
cabins, on a bend in the river. 2 feet short, or 3 feet long, and you were
in the water. The Calvert Peak airstrip is at 3800msl(1600' long), and is
just Northwest of where these folks were found. The general terrain around
there goes from 5298' @ Brandy Peak, on the South side, down to 500' at the
rivers edge, and back up to Mt. Boliver @ 4319' on the North side. Many
peaks on both side are in the 4000' range.This time of year, it is not
uncommon for a low overcast to lay in between snow showers, and remain for
weeks. Even if you could get to the top of a hill, you couldn't see
anything.
I live about 30nm north of this area, and can tell you it is very
vertical, shadows at high noon and all that. He probably walked closer to 15
or 20 miles, winding around the mountain getting down to a spot a mile or so
below his car.
Last year a guy in a motor home did the same thing, and he was up there
with his kids for 3 weeks to a month, before someone spotted him from the
air. In that case everyone got out. They had a lot of provisions.
The pilot that found them is a student of mine. Well, I flew with him
for his private training almost thirty years ago. He is a very level head,
and not easily excitable. I believe he was commuting from his ranch in
Agness, at the junction of the Rogue and Illinois Rivers.

Al G