interesting moment yesterday on final

Nobody with two brain cells
left whips out a sectional while in the pattern to
locate the idiot IFR pilot.
So VFR pilots don't use sectionals in preflight planning or while in flight.
Why do they carry them at all?

They use sectionals in planning but don't memorize the location of all
intersections enroute. Therefore if they need to find an intersection,
they would need to consult the chart. Intersections are not prominant.

They carry sectionals to refer to in flight, and smart pilots refer to
them when looking out the window isn't critical. Smart pilots, for
example, aren't looking for an intersection on a sectional while a
hundred feet above the threshold, or when they are near an airport and
scanning for traffic in the pattern (and other traffic shooting through
the pattern).

I don't want to go into what dumb pilots do with sectionals.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Recently, Larry Dighera posted:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 23:03:15 -0000, Jim Logajan
wrote in :

Your citation of AC90-66A [1] appears to
clearly indicate that the FAA prefers that IFR pilots report their
positions by transmitting their distance from uncontrolled airports
when landing at same:

How do you resolve that conclusion with the third paragraph from the
end below:

I really don't see a conflict. Considering the *intent* of these regs, it
is obvious that clear communications are required. In an IFR-only
environment, the communication in that paragraph is clear and concise. In
a mixed environment, it is inadequate, which is why the other examples and
regs are given. This seems so obvious that it makes me wonder how this
thread has gone on for so long.

Neil

"Jose" wrote in message
t...

Then the FAA has it's head in a very dark place. But this won't be the
first time.


The FAA often has it's head in a dark place, but this isn't one of those
times.

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
t...

Do that. It hasn't been.


It's been required for more than sixty years. From "Digest of Civil Air
Regulations for Pilots", October 1943:


Requirements for Certification

Private Pilot Certificate

Aeronautical Knowledge

Applicant shall be familiar with and accomplish satisfactorily a written
examination covering so much of the provisions of Parts 01, 20, and 60 of
the regulations as are pertinent to his certificate, prevailing weather
conditions in the United States as encountered in flying, and the
forecasting thereof, the analyzing of weather maps and sequence reports as
furnished by the United States Weather Bureau, practical air navigation
problems and the use of maps, navigation by terrain (pilotage) and by dead
reckoning, including the use of instruments and other aids to navigation in
visual contact flying, and the general servicing and operation of aircraft.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

http://skyvector.com/#22-28-3-2358-2654

There's the sectional for my home airport KELD. Please let me know from
this section where the fixes are ann what there names are.


That cannot be determined from a sectional. You have to examine the IAP
charts to find the FAFs, they're free online at several sites. I use
www.aeroplanner.com.

The IAPs, FAFs, and the distances from FAF to threshold for KELD a

ILS or LOC RWY 22 LADOS LOM 5.2
RNAV RWY 4 WOSDO 4.6
RNAV RWY 22 ODIRY 5.2
VOR/DME RWY 4 CHIPP 3.5
VOR RWY 22 ELD VORTAC 3.5


The only one that's published on the sectional is El Dorado VORTAC, but you
can easily add the others.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:25:53 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


"Jose" wrote in message
et...

Then the FAA has it's head in a very dark place. But this won't be the
first time.


The FAA often has it's head in a dark place, but this isn't one of those
times.


Why not? Surely you see the contradiction between the two ACs.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...

See, there is a gradation, not a sharp line. If you take the phrase
literally, "all" means all, "available" means available, and "information"
means information. You'd never take off.


The phrase is not "all available" information, it's "all available
information concerning that flight." Since use of the FAF is preferred in a
self-announce broadcast and that information is readily available, the names
and locations of those fixes is "available information concerning that
flight."

Recently, Steven P. McNicoll posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
t...

Do that. It hasn't been.


It's been required for more than sixty years. From "Digest of Civil
Air Regulations for Pilots", October 1943:

Applicant shall be familiar with and accomplish satisfactorily a
written examination covering so much of the provisions of Parts 01,
20, and 60 of the regulations as are pertinent to his certificate,
prevailing weather conditions in the United States as encountered in
flying, and the forecasting thereof, the analyzing of weather maps
and sequence reports as furnished by the United States Weather
Bureau, practical air navigation problems and the use of maps,
navigation by terrain (pilotage) and by dead reckoning, including the
use of instruments and other aids to navigation in visual contact
flying, and the general servicing and operation of aircraft.

You do realize that NONE of the above pertains to IAPs, don't you?

What parts of "...pertinent to his certificate...", or "...visual contact
flying..." confuses you so badly?

Neil

The FAA often has it's head in a dark place, but this isn't one of those
times.

Yes it is.
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That cannot be determined from a sectional. You have to examine the IAP
charts to find the FAFs, they're free online at several sites.

So now, in a busy pattern, the pilot, after hearing that somebody or
other is "at CHIPP inbound", turns his head away from the window and
down at his sectional to fail to find CHIPP. He then reaches into his
flight bag and pulls out the approach plate book. No, not that one,
this one. Ok, we're at South Arkansas Regional/Goodwin. Is it filed
under Goodwin, or under South Arkansas? Or maybe under El Dorado, the
nearest town. Flip flip. Ok, found it. Examine the ILS 22. Nope.
Not there. Now look at the RNAV 4. No joy. How about the RNAV 22.
There it is... nope. Misread it. How about the VOR 4... here it is.
CHIPP. Now, where is it in real life; there isn't a scale of miles.
How about down here in the plan view... ok 3.5 miles from the....

At this point our pilot acquires the aircraft visually, as its left
wingtip pierces the cockpit.

I have a much better idea. Give position reports in latitude and
longitude. That's readily available on the sectional, and easily
determined from the GPS.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.