Shock! Hana's Diana 2 in service

On 5 Dec, 11:42, "Andrzej" wrote:
Thanks for the translations. Just one little thing - I think that's a
"bush" you're referring too. "Muff" can mean "bush", but in a rather,
erm, anatomical sense.

I'm sorry but my english is worse than your polish )

Impossible!

Ian

This glider has only 60 hours in the air! 60 hours! Do you know what
guarantee is?!

I wonder that producer repairs it!

Andy

I would like to see the original parts before the so called
modification.
other the the bolts in your first picture.

I think producer show more pictures soon. Presented pictures are hot.

Andy

All this only shows again that a client of this Polish glider
manufacturer has no other possibility than being forced to "do it
himself" because he does not get the necessary service, not the
required instructions, nor papers when he needs this all urgently for
flying. He did not even get the right documentation for the glider
itself (and not for the trailer?).

how can You know that? How is it posible that the producer doesn't give the
instructions?

This was to read here somewhere in
the forum. As far as I remember the Australians did these
"modifications" after the problems occured and after they did not
receive help from the manufacturer, right?

Yes it was. But as I can remember nothing was told about modifications. The
only thing was told was that #3 glider's airbrakes and flaperons were
working bad, and that mr Beres didnt want to fix it. Nobody told the truth
that the owner contacted the producer AFTER he has made the modifications
and that mr Beres proposed to fix the glider for free even though it was
broken by the user. His only condition was to ship the plane to him.
It is imposible that a glider with incorrectly adjusted airbrakes or
flaperons leaves the factory for the client. That is what the test flighst
are for. So I claim that the glider was OK when it left the factory.
But You are right in one thing - he should have gone to Australia that time
and fix the glider there. And off course he should have taken lots of money
for his travel and the repair itself. Because that is what other producers
do when ones equipment is broken by inproper use.

What else can a client (who
is not a mechanic or specialist) do, far away from the manufactuer,
then trying to help himself.

If the glider was damaged because of the manufacturer? The client should
demand reparation on producers cost.
When the glider was damaged by the user - the user should pay for the repair
( or write many messages on RAS saying that the glider is a piece of crap
and that way make the producer repair it on his cost )

By the way - what do these photos here
show? Nothing particular, only that finally the manufacturer is doing
something - that's all. Just the wrong exchange of a rediculous screw
is not a big problem.

Oh, realy?! I hope You have nothing to do with gliders maintenance.
It is a big problem. You can exchange a screw with anything You want,
but only if it is a screw in a wheelbarrow, because I guess you wouldn't do
it in Your bicycle.

I have the impression that the fiercy reaction
of the Polish manufacturer only is an quite shamful attempt to save
his face.

Where can You see that fiercy reaction You are talking about? If You You
call fiercy the discussion we are having now or the pictures - they are only
a reaction of few pilots who care about the good reputation of Polish
gliders. The producer has nothing to do with it but letting one of us make
photos of the glider and explaining to us the history of it a few months
ago, when RAS was being flooded with a news about his botch-up.

Regards
Maciek K.

PS
Yes, I'm Polish

If the glider was damaged because of the manufacturer? The client
should
demand reparation on producers cost.
When the glider was damaged by the user - the user should pay for the
repair
( or write many messages on RAS saying that the glider is a piece of
crap
and that way make the producer repair it on his cost )

That's a point!

Andy

On Dec 5, 6:25 am, wrote:
All this only shows again that a client of this Polish glider
manufacturer has no other possibility than being forced to "do it
himself" because he does not get the necessary service, not the
required instructions, nor papers when he needs this all urgently for
flying. He did not even get the right documentation for the glider
itself (and not for the trailer?). This was to read here somewhere in
the forum. As far as I remember the Australians did these
"modifications" after the problems occured and after they did not
receive help from the manufacturer, right? What else can a client (who
is not a mechanic or specialist) do, far away from the manufactuer,
then trying to help himself. By the way - what do these photos here
show? Nothing particular, only that finally the manufacturer is doing
something - that's all. Just the wrong exchange of a rediculous screw
is not a big problem. I have the impression that the fiercy reaction
of the Polish manufacturer only is an quite shamful attempt to save
his face.

You are another example of "smear tactics campaign" Your impression is
wrong dude, the manufacturer doesn't have to save his face. The
manufacturer released from the factory properly designed, built and
flight tested glider. The end user did "something" to the glider -
something that he (in this case she) is not telling. The end user is
the one who is trying to save her face. And most of users at this
forum jumped into conclusion that it was manufacturing "problem" even
though it wasn't. And then this guy hiding under the Blue Cumulus name
(I am not going to mentioned his name, simply because he is not worth
it) spread the rumors and lies about "how badly polish manufacturer
treated the customer" and that the Poles don't know how to built a
glider. And this is nothing more than a case of very obvious prejudice
against Poland and polish products. Furthermore, here in the US, and
I know that this same is going on in Australia, Canada and some other
countries (because I've seen it), where a A&P's are working on gliders
without having any experience with them. They were trained with sheet
metal, rivets, 4130 steel, etc. There are very few mechanics with a
knowledge of modern sailplanes. Owners of "experimental category"
gliders are also working on their gliders without having proper
knowledge, skill and know-how. In many cases they go to Home Depot to
buy a stupid bolt for $0.50 instead of paying the manufacturer $5.00.
Another very important thing that you are missing, is the fact that in
Poland, country of which you have no knowledge whatsoever and probably
don't even know were it is, they do things in such a high level of
bureaucracy that they simply cannot obtain a signature from civil
aviation inspector without jumping through the hoops. Here we have
IA's who will signed almost anything, because they are the authority.
Right. The best thing is to blame the manufacturer. That seems to be
easy way out.
Right here in the US there is a few Diana's, I am the owner of one of
them. There is nothing wrong with the glider, everything is very
clearly marked, the manual in English language is very thorough, and
it is a good glider. If you want to know about the glider simply ask
someone who knows.

Jacek
Pasco, WA

P.S. Anyone wants to attack me, go right on ahead, all of you hiding
back there while previously making all kind of derogatory comments;
shame on you.

It's a shame that the reputation of the Diana-2 and its makers have
been blackmailed to repair something for free that they are not
responsible for.

I wonder how many sales this has cost them. The sailplane is without a
doubt the highest performing 15 Meter ever built and the contest
placements at the very least seem to support this contention.

Just this summer the Diana-2 placed 1st and 2nd at the European
Championships, after winning the Grand Prix and the Worlds........At
the previous European Championships, the Diana-2 placed 2nd.

Too bad the reputation has been needlessly sullied. I wonder how
stupid some people can be to let a ham handed mechanic fiddle like
that with a brand new aircraft.

On Dec 5, 4:14 pm, wrote:
...Owners of "experimental category" gliders are also working
on their gliders without having proper knowledge, skill and
know-how.

Please tell me what this "proper knowledge" is and where I may find
it.

Thanks, Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

Jacek,
I too think it is a very nice glider and I hope it will be successful
in the market place. Unfortunately the manufacture made a big public
relation error. As soon there was a hint of the customer not being
happy
they should have been more proactive, especially at this early in the
game. Pilot's with a new glider want to be happy and as group they are
very tolerant when it comes to there new toys. Look for example the
ASW 27 and it wing surface problem. It did not hurt the sale of the
glider or take DG and how it handled the 300 spar issue or Schempp
Hirth with the spar delaminating problem.

Anyone that is 12000 km away from the manufacture and just received
the glider wants it to work and nobody is looking for trouble,
consider how much other money and time has been invested aside from
the glider.

We will never hear the full story.
The pictures are not in context, hence useless to make a
determination. I hope it will work out for both parties.

Udo





On Dec 5, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Dec 5, 6:25 am, wrote:

All this only shows again that a client of this Polish glider
manufacturer has no other possibility than being forced to "do it
himself" because he does not get the necessary service, not the
required instructions, nor papers when he needs this all urgently for
flying. He did not even get the right documentation for the glider
itself (and not for the trailer?). This was to read here somewhere in
the forum. As far as I remember the Australians did these
"modifications" after the problems occured and after they did not
receive help from the manufacturer, right? What else can a client (who
is not a mechanic or specialist) do, far away from the manufactuer,
then trying to help himself. By the way - what do these photos here
show? Nothing particular, only that finally the manufacturer is doing
something - that's all. Just the wrong exchange of a rediculous screw
is not a big problem. I have the impression that the fiercy reaction
of the Polish manufacturer only is an quite shamful attempt to save
his face.

You are another example of "smear tactics campaign" Your impression is
wrong dude, the manufacturer doesn't have to save his face. The
manufacturer released from the factory properly designed, built and
flight tested glider. The end user did "something" to the glider -
something that he (in this case she) is not telling. The end user is
the one who is trying to save her face. And most of users at this
forum jumped into conclusion that it was manufacturing "problem" even
though it wasn't. And then this guy hiding under the Blue Cumulus name
(I am not going to mentioned his name, simply because he is not worth
it) spread the rumors and lies about "how badly polish manufacturer
treated the customer" and that the Poles don't know how to built a
glider. And this is nothing more than a case of very obvious prejudice
against Poland and polish products. Furthermore, here in the US, and
I know that this same is going on in Australia, Canada and some other
countries (because I've seen it), where a A&P's are working on gliders
without having any experience with them. They were trained with sheet
metal, rivets, 4130 steel, etc. There are very few mechanics with a
knowledge of modern sailplanes. Owners of "experimental category"
gliders are also working on their gliders without having proper
knowledge, skill and know-how. In many cases they go to Home Depot to
buy a stupid bolt for $0.50 instead of paying the manufacturer $5.00.
Another very important thing that you are missing, is the fact that in
Poland, country of which you have no knowledge whatsoever and probably
don't even know were it is, they do things in such a high level of
bureaucracy that they simply cannot obtain a signature from civil
aviation inspector without jumping through the hoops. Here we have
IA's who will signed almost anything, because they are the authority.
Right. The best thing is to blame the manufacturer. That seems to be
easy way out.
Right here in the US there is a few Diana's, I am the owner of one of
them. There is nothing wrong with the glider, everything is very
clearly marked, the manual in English language is very thorough, and
it is a good glider. If you want to know about the glider simply ask
someone who knows.

Jacek
Pasco, WA

P.S. Anyone wants to attack me, go right on ahead, all of you hiding
back there while previously making all kind of derogatory comments;
shame on you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 5, 4:42 pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Dec 5, 4:14 pm, wrote:

...Owners of "experimental category" gliders are also working
on their gliders without having proper knowledge, skill and
know-how.

Please tell me what this "proper knowledge" is and where I may find
it.

Thanks, Bob K.http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

Hi Bob,

In the bag of cheerios at your local Safeway store...or let me
see...maybe I've made a mistake and I saw it at Albertsons....

There is a totally composite aircraft for sale up here in the Pacific
Northwest....the guy who was building it joined the halves of the
fuselage, wings and tail using epoxy resin that he purchased at local
paint supply store, mixing it by simply eyeballing it and call it good
because "it will be stronger" .....do you want me to go on? And from
all the people out there YOU are issuing comment like that? I would
expect more from you but I guess I was wrong.

Jacek