To blow or not to blow...

"Dallas" wrote in message

Many States automatically suspend your driver's licence for refusal to
take
an alcohol test. From a constitutional point of view, I don't understand
why the 5th Amendment doesn't come into play here. Doesn't one have the
right to refuse all alcohol tests on the basis of self incrimination?

I don't think so, because driving on the roads is a licensed privelage, not
a right.


-c

"Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:54:15 -0800 (PST), James Sleeman wrote:

I'm not in the US. But I'd have to say, blow.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you wouldn't be
so ignorant, foolhardy, self absorbed, and dangerous as to get in the
drivers seat when you're anywhere near, let alone over the limit
anyway.

Well, here's the problem in the U.S. - Mothers Against Drunk Driving
(MADD)
has successfully lobbied to lower the original level of .10% down to .08%,
and is actively working to lower it even further.

To many people this is just a few glasses of wine with dinner. I fail to
see how lowering the legal limit has any effect, other that to cast a
wider
net ruining many people's lives who were most likely not impaired to begin
with.

That said, that is our current law. I guess the only way to safeguard
your
certificate is to skip that second glass of wine with dinner.

--
Dallas

Many jurisdictions have always defined .08 as legal impairment, and several
are now using .05 as the threshold for issuing 24 hr roadside suspensions
and some use or are advocating adoption of the .05 level as legal
impairment. IMHO a 24 hr roadside suspension (which may also include a
towing and taxi bill) is what I would call a 'near miss incident', they are
often used by police who do not wish to charge you for what they estimate
may be .081 or border-line impairment.

IMHO a driver who takes a drink MUST be very careful of the quantity they
are consuming and that the only way to do this is to count your drinks
carefully. Mixed drinks can be an unknown quantity and in general should be
avoided, particularly if they are being poured by a generous host. IMHO the
only safe alcohol to drink is bottled beer as the product has a known
alcohol level and it is possible to count units and time accurately (give
yourself a margin of safety). Drink lots of water to quench thirst and
prevent dehydration and hangover.

A lawyer who does a fair amount of DUI work told me that the most dangerous
thing to consume is wine as it is normally served in larger glasses which
contain more alcohol units than a beer or shot and make it difficult to
count your drinks. Companions will also frequently 'top up' your glass
which also makes counting more difficult. The lawyer claimed that the
majority of his business was due to wine.

IMHO, alcohol and nicotine are the most problematic drugs in use in our
culture, cigarettes should be eliminated and alcohol consumed very
carefully.

YMMV, happy landings.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 00:16:34 -0600, Dallas
wrote in
:

I guess the only way to safeguard your
certificate is to skip that second glass of wine with dinner.

That, or wait for it to be metabolized before taking to the road. Take
a stroll in the moonlight and wait it out.

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 00:30:14 -0600, Dallas
wrote in
:

you really
have no way of knowing the alcohol content of that top shelf margarita that
the friendly bartender made for you at the restaurant.

That is true, but you can be aware of your BAC:

http://www.breathalyzer.net/index2.html
http://www.intox.com/products/handheld.asp
http://www.craigmedical.com/AlcoScreen.htm

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:42:18 -0600, Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

They are quite effective else all the DUI convictions would have been thrown out.

Wikipedia seems to indicate that breathalyzers are prone to significant
error. One might be smart to demand a blood test instead.

From Wikipedia:
Breath testers can be very sensitive to temperature, for example, and will
give false readings if not adjusted or recalibrated to account for ambient
or surrounding air temperatures. The temperature of the subject is also
very important.

Breathing pattern can also significantly affect breath test results. One
study found that the BAC readings of subjects decreased 11 to 14% after
running up one flight of stairs and 72¡V75% after doing so twice. Another
study found a 15% decrease in BAC readings after vigorous exercise or
hyperventilation. Hyperventilation for 20 seconds has been shown to lower
the reading by approximately 32%. On the other hand, holding your breath
for 30 seconds can increase the breath test result by about 28%.[citation
needed]

Some breath analysis machines assume a hematocrit (cell volume of blood) of
47%. However, hematocrit values range from 42 to 52% in men and from 37 to
47% in women. A person with a lower hematocrit will have a falsely high BAC
reading.

Failure of law enforcement officers to use the devices properly or of
administrators to have the machines properly maintained and re-calibrated
as required are particularly common sources of error. However, most states
have very strict guidelines regarding officer training and instrument
maintenance and calibration.

Research indicates that breath tests can vary at least 15% from actual
blood alcohol concentration. An estimated 23% of individuals tested will
have a BAC reading higher than their true BAC. Police in Victoria,
Australia use breathalyzers that give a recognized 20 per cent tolerance on
readings. Noel Ashby, former Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner
(Traffic & Transport) claims that this tolerance is to allow for different
body types.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathalyzer

--
Dallas

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:47:12 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

Then law enforcement may arrest you and can
take a blood sample without your concent.

Apparently not in Texas. In fact I started this thread because of a local
news story of a high ranking FBI agent in Dallas driving the wrong way down
a freeway and refusing to take both the breath test or the blood test.


From the link Gig 601XL Builder provided:

"While no one can force a driver to take a sobriety test, refusal to give a
blood or breath sample may carry stiff consequences."

--
Dallas

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 05:23:33 -0800 (PST), Denny wrote:

btw, I hate drunks... They should all run into a telephone pole and
put themselves out of their misery...

BTW, I do too.

Several years ago after a company function, I let my wife drive the car
because I had picked up a nasty little headache. It was a country road and
we were on the outside of a curve. The headlights coming from the other
direction just forgot to turn their wheel and careened down the entire
driver's side of my car shredding it from the front bumper to the rear
bumper.

That car just used the rebound to stay on the road and never even once
touched his brakes. He just continued driving like nothing had happened.


--
Dallas

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:00:45 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

That is true, but you can be aware of your BAC:
http://www.breathalyzer.net/index2.html


Here's a handy site to figure out how much you can drink before you're over
the legal limit.

http://www.coolnurse.com/alcohol_calculator.htm

I was surprised to find that drinking three shots in one hour does not put
me over the limit. I doubt I'd ever down 3 shots in 1 hour so I guess the
answer to my question is "blow"...


--
Dallas

IMHO a driver who takes a drink MUST be very careful of the quantity they
are consuming and that the only way to do this is to count your drinks
carefully. Mixed drinks can be an unknown quantity and in general should be
avoided, particularly if they are being poured by a generous host. IMHO the
only safe alcohol to drink is bottled beer as the product has a known
alcohol level and it is possible to count units and time accurately (give
yourself a margin of safety). Drink lots of water to quench thirst and
prevent dehydration and hangover.

A lawyer who does a fair amount of DUI work told me that the most dangerous
thing to consume is wine as it is normally served in larger glasses which
contain more alcohol units than a beer or shot and make it difficult to
count your drinks. Companions will also frequently 'top up' your glass
which also makes counting more difficult. The lawyer claimed that the
majority of his business was due to wine.

IMHO, alcohol and nicotine are the most problematic drugs in use in our
culture, cigarettes should be eliminated and alcohol consumed very
carefully.

I once read a letter from some guy to his local PD, asking if he could borrow a
breathalyzer for the weekend to get a feel for what legal intoxication actually felt like.
Basically, his reasoning was that the body has no intrinsic way to measure BAC
numerically, and ruling on a numeric value that nobody could really measure was like not
equipping cards with speedometers, but rather a crib sheet with times and distances, and
coding the sheet "OK" "you might be speeding" and "definitely speeding" depending on the
time/distance. He does have a point, I guess.

On 2008-02-07 12:16:27 -0800, Dallas said:


Breathalyzer that is... and field test.. and blood test.

With respect to your certificate, I was wondering what the best course of
action would be if you had imbibed a couple of cocktails and you were
pulled over and suspected of DUI.

How about just not drinking and driving and avoiding the whole problem?




--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor